A brief summary of IE migrations

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Cadmus

Andrew!

Why cant i see any Pelasgians on the maps?
To what group did they belong? certainly not Anatolian isn't it?

That's because I only put the IE nations in the maps . The Pelasgians were the local , "indigenus" non-IEan population all over the South Balkans. Of course they were.

Originally Posted by Cadmus

And how did the Phryghes/bryghes managed to pass from the north two major groupes like the Proto Greeks and Satem divisions like Thracians etc..
And if the Phryghes arrived in the Balkans where were the Pelasgians who did mnaged to stop the Proto Greek descendance from Rumania into the southern areas such as Kosovo and Fyrom..and thus had to follow the Adriatic coastline via Albania and Epirus...

Just a thought ...The proto-Greeks , back in the 2000-2500 BC were only migrating goatherds , not sophisticated warriors that's why they failed to "break" the pelasgian defences. The Phrygians on the other hand that descended around 1300 BC (1000 years later) had more sophisticated weapons and battle skills.The Phrygians and the Iron Age arrived contemporarerly in the Balkans. We don't know yet if it was the Phrygians who brought the Iron Working in the Balkans , since Iron was already known in Asia. IF it was the Phrygians that brought Iron Working in the Balkans then their weapons were more "Strong" than the bronge ones of all the others. don't forget that a little later , around 1050 BC the Illyrians made the same thing , they expanded and became rulers to the already "locals" in a vast zone that reached Amphipolis (Eastern Macedonia) and the Thessalian Alos. Thank god Thracians , Cimmerians , Paeonians and Greeks managed to push them back.

Hammond says that the advantage of the Illyrians was small elite and discipline forces covered with full body armor.

Originally Posted by Cadmus

I do believe that they the P.G's were staying for a long time in Epirus and some didn't even migrate further south..

That some never left that's for sure ..the ones stayed behind and mixed with the Pelasgians probably gave birth to your favorite folks : Encheleans , Dexares , Caloecini etc

Originally Posted by Cadmus

But i cant figure the Bryghes/Phrygians settling at the exact same spot that is before or after the P.G.'s settling in Epirus...i dont get it help me?

[url=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=178&i=lbamakjp8.jpg][IMG]

The "stars" in Early Iron Age maybe are the Phrygians (or they could be Greek Iron Age settlements)..first they moved to West Macedonia ...and later came to Central Macedonian Plain as the next map shows , that has only the "Lausitz" centers:

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

Probably earlier. I feel that that the Proto Greek tribes arrived in Epirus at latest in 2300bc and at some point around 2100bc they began their push southward into Thessaly and then further.

George you were wright !!!
I've made a closer research this summer and I have to say that the proto-Greeks (Bubanj Hum II culture) appears in Pelagonia and North Epeirus at least around 2400 BC. And around 2000 BC they've started their descent in Greece (The Gajtan II culture in north Albania where Hammond locates the proto-Ionians was abandoned around 2000-1900 BC , meanwhile the Maliq IIb irradiation starts around 2300 BC).

The Maliq IIb culture irradiation starts around 2300 BC , contemporarely with the transition IIb->IIIa.

Maliq I was "porodin pelasgian culture" (Late Neolithic , around 2600 BC)
Maliq IIa (around 2500 BC) was mainly porodin pelasgian BUT with the first appearance of Kurgan burial modalities.
Maliq IIb (around 2400 BC) is a proper mix of Porodin pelasgians and Bubanj Hum Kurgans (proto-Greeks) and it starts it's irradiation around 2300 BC (Maliq IIb tombs have been found in Leukada , Servia , Vergina ) dating before 2000 BC , meanwhile the first Maliq IIb tomb in the Peloponnese is located in Lerna and dates in Middle Helladic (after 1900 BC).

Anyway more stuff about that watch here :

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...html#post89517