Encheleans

[Cadmus]

Hi Olvios,

I presume you do not concur on the archaeological subjects on the Fyrom scientific link...i must agree that a lot of ancient texts place them as Illyrian...

Since this also is a section for Epirus, could we discuss the Epiruvian tribe of the Chaones? more specially the clan of the Lynx/wolf they had been said to migrated in to the area of Lyncestus or even Desarets (Ohrid area)

If the Enchelians are not 100% Macedonian could they have then mixed ethnics from epirus and Illyria?

[olvios]

No mixing of tribes is mentioned and the enchelians are illyrian 100% . The archaeology simply points out the fact that they were influenced by the greeks. Though any finds prior to 1200 bc when they illyrians descended from haalstat could be actually Greek Eteocretan-Macedonian setllements. And remember that Illyrians arent native and arent pelasgian . If the later was proven to be the case then all european populations would be pelasgians as well.Plato also mentions that Greece was all the way up to the danube once, this could mean those mycynean finds all over the balkans that some countries like to claim as no greek.

[olvios]

the given paper of course is full of moronic arbitrary illogical sayings trying unneffectively again to prove the unprovable.Morons.

[Cadmus]

Well i'm afraid i just cant trust any Fyrom scientific claims then...

Olvios what do Greek sources say about any possible migration from Epirus to the east the area of todays southwestern Fyrom?

It is proven that the Molossian Ethne reached the or formed the Lyncestians in the Bitola area...Anything about the Chaones moving in a similair direction?

I can understand that the subsequent Illyrian migrations in 1200-800 b.c.,from the Kosovo and Danube area pushed some native Epirotes more in a south-south eastern direction..assuming the Illyrians followed the coastlines in a southern direction..

[olvios]

You cant really clear things because many finds(not all of course) in Albania,skopia,bulgaria while greek are classified as "other" so archaeology is lost somewhere along the line of post communist propaganda.

[Cadmus]

Since i cannot trust on any Fyrom based sources, where can i find some good from Greek translated sources about Epirus and Thessaly i need to study these two topics more to understand the whole culture of the border area of todays Greece/Fyrom and Albania..sources in English i man of course..

If its not to much to ask,...also som good sources about the Molossians/Chaones...

Ps Wikipedia is only good in basic points, but i need to dig in more!

[olvios]

You should start with Ancient Greek geographers . In english i am afraid i cant help you. I have Tlg mousaios(database) but its in Ancient Greek.

[Cadmus]

Hi Olvios!

Is there any chance if you could translate the fitting parts about Molossians/Chaons and Thessalians if its not to much text of course..

Point 2:

This is from Maicar:

After having many children, Cadmus and Harmonia 1 left Thebes in order to defend the Encheleans, a people leaving in southern Illyria, which is the region north of Epirus, and there defeated the Illyrian intruders. During their absence, their son Polydorus 2 became king, but it is also said that Pentheus 1, son of the Sparti Echion 2 and Agave 2, daughter of Cadmus, succeeded him on the throne.

Agave 2 herself married King Lycotherses of Illyria, whom she murdered, handing the kingdom over to her father

Maybe in the pre Troyan era the Enhelians were a Hellenised branch of Epirotes or heavily influenced by them...but this text is pre Homer?

Anyway could they be a Hellenised clan living amongst the Illyrians which the Illyrians tried to subdue considering the Hallstatt migrations from the Illyrians in the pre Troyan era?

Could they be a leftover Pelasgian/Epiruvian tribe who were defending their culture against the Illyrians but who were later on annexed by the Illyrians in the years ....hmmm this is a hard one..because you see the Hellenic masks with typical Hellenic features were from 8-5 century b.c. could they had resisted Illyrian annexation until 5century b.c??

Besides the Hellenic key is called Meander and they were found on all Masks from the Trebeniste necropolis

[olvios]

Illyrians prior to 1200-1000 bc are in haalstat and are to be found amidst Celtic type cultures far away from the balkans. Any finds before this time frame is not illyrian but Greek pre-homeric or not. Greek natives are pelasgians the only "invaders" are Dorians greeks.

[Cadmus]

Great, so the Enchelians mentioned in the Cadmos & Harmonia are Pelasgian or Dorian and became Illyrian later!

Should i pm you for the fitting parts about the Molossians/Chaones / Thessalians??

All the best,

Cadmus