Ancient Thrace and Hellenized Thrace

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Thanks mate. As for sarcasm, you don't know my circle of mates. I am all to familiar with it, and no complaints of that. You have no idea. ANyhow, Merry Christmas to you all.

[paniskos]

in the macedonia highlands under the hellenic sky

[akritas]

......just for your information (ta upoloipa ta afino gia ta meloi tou forum) that the only book that I have from Georgiadis publications is from Sarantos Kargakos and speak for the Helleinikothta thw Makedonias.
And my library is HUGE!!!!!!!!

[Euklid]

Paniskos...i like the VP mate....even though am koloPireotis myself.

Anyway...as i see you havent been to forums for very long.

Before jumping into conclusions mate i have to remind you that here and every single place as such have a curtain...nationalism you might call it.....watching the back i would.

Some people in this forum have dealt with the most disgusting people in the world....and through this very same "nationalism" they have managed to overcome certain obstacles and rise above.

You mouth rushes a bit...and that is as much a mistake as the one you are arguing against.

This is not a coffee table mate...nor is IRC or Messenger.

This place has a its one style...which has been formed over the past year that this forum has been functioning.

Also many poeple do not speak perfect Greek...and indeed some conclusions might be arbitrary.

Me liga logia min protrexeis...to minima pernaei kai en oligois.

An esy theleis to forum to sugkekrimeno na ginei moderate...the way that you perceive moderation...then just chill out here...and try to contribute for the Mcedonian cause as well as for the "moderation" cause.

Polloi edo den symfonoume metaksy mas...alla sto vomo tis diplomatias thysiazoume sygkekrimena attitudes.

In anyway...nice to have you around...kai that ta poume kai apo konta gia kana kafe stin Ellada..elpizo na skaso lian syntomos.

Ante tsiou.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Paniskos..

I honestly have no idea what you're going on about.. The first question I'd like to ask is WHAT do you consider Thrace.. and of course WHEN do you believe that this interaction (if you believe there was any) took place ??

A couple of other notes/questions..

Keeping in mind that Homer speaks of Dodona as the seat of Pelasgic Zeus.. should we believe that this was Thracian influence/origin, since although he's titled Pelasgian (do note that Herodotus indicates that Hellines and Pelasgians were of the same 'race'), Dodoni was situated in what they the considered Thrace (untill the Makedones took over) ??

Or should we consider Orpheus an ethnic Thracian when we know that not only according to traditions he was born by one of the purely Hellinic muses (daughter of Pierus son of Magnes) Kaliope, but also took part in the Hellinic Argonaut's expedition.. not to neglect to mention that he was born in Pieria.[I didn't mention Oiagros since his backround is obscure)

How about Thamyris who's refered to as Thracian in Homer (Iliad 2.595)???
Do we suggest he's an ethnic Thracian based on Homer's use of the 'T' word.. or do we look into his actions and the fact that his father Philammon was known to dwell in Parnassos ??

[Teukros]

What I learned by reading some sources about Thracians and Greeks is that they were originate from common people but the first remained in a lower level of culture so they advanced their own dialect,difficult to understand but they still were the first cousins of Greeks,weren't they?

[Truth Bearer]

Originally Posted by Flipper

The coast of Thrace was inhabited by Greeks. Ionians specificaly. Thassos that is considered a Thracian Island was inhabited by Cadmians. Northern Thrace had nothing to do with us except from a Hellinization that occured.

Aristotelis mentions Thrace as a part of the Hellinic world. Not all of Thrace ofcourse but almost where todays borders go.

Spot on
We colonized the Thracian coastal areas from before the Illiad and pushed the barbarians up land.They Hellenized after Lysimachus became king of the region during the reign of the successors.

[PAO123]

According to Konstantinos Plevris, who is by the way one of the best Ancient Greek historians out there in my oppinion, Thrace is more Greek than all of Greece. You can watch the episode in which he talks about Thrace by downloading these 2 rapidshare links RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting Plevris brings out some very good points on how Thrace is Greek. Note that this is in audio and in Greek only.

[Peace Lover]

Thracians

The ancient Thracians were a group of Indo-European tribes who spoke the extinct Thracian language - a scarcely attested branch of the Indo-European language family. Those peoples inhabited the Eastern, Central and Southern part of the Balkan peninsula, as well as the adjacent parts of Eastern Europe.

Thracians inhabited the ancient provinces of: Thrace, Moesia, Dacia, Scythia Minor, Sarmatia, Bithynia, Mysia, Macedonia, Pannonia, and other regions on the Balkans and Anatolia. This area extends over most of the Balkans region, and the Getae north of the Danube as far as beyond the Bug.[1]. The branch of science that studies the ancient Thracians and Thrace is called Thracology.

Origins

The prehistoric origins of the Thracians remain obscure, in absence of written historical records. Evidence of proto-Thracians in the prehistoric period depends on remains of material culture. Proto-Thracian tombs can be found dating back to 3000 BC[2], when what can be termed as 'proto-Thracian' culture began to form.[3] It is generally proposed that a proto-Thracian people developed from a mixture of indigenous peoples and Indo-Europeans from the time of Proto-Indo-European expansion in the Early Bronze Age[4] when the latter, around 1500 BC, conquered the indigenous peoples[5].

Modern linguistics classifies the Thracians as an Indo-European people who spoke a satemized language, which links them to Albanians, Slavs, Balts and Ancient Iranian peoples. It is however disputed whether the satem languages actually descend from a later than PIE ancestor (thus forming a true satem subgroup of Indo-European) or whether satemization was caused by areal contact or parallel evolution. Links to the Greek branch (a centum language) of the Indo-European language family are also being investigated.

The ethnonym Thraikios (ancient Greek for Thracian) may have the same etymology as Graikos [2]. Graikoi originally referred to a Boeotian tribe of Hellenes who became known to the Latins at an early date.

The first historical record about the Thracians is found in the Iliad, where they appear as allies of the Trojans, hailing from Thrace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians

[Peace Lover]

Classical period

By the 5th century BC, the Thracian presence was pervasive enough to have made Herodotus (book 5) call them the second-most numerous people in the part of the world known by him (after the Indians), and potentially the most powerful, if not for their disunity. The Thracians in classical times were broken up into a large number of groups and tribes, though a number of powerful Thracian states were organized, such as the Odrysian kingdom of Thrace and the Dacian kingdom of Burebista. A type of soldier of this period called the Peltast probably originated in Thrace.



In that period contacts between the Thracians and Classical Greece intensified which led to strengthening Greek influences in Thracian society, culture and handcrafts. Because their language had no written tradition, in some regions the Thracian aristocracy and administration adopted Classical Greek for an official language and Thracian merchants utilised it as a 'lingua franca' in their contacts with other tribes and peoples. As a result a level of Hellenization was observed in the following centuries and it was deeper imposed by the Macedonian conquests over the Thracian territory in 3rd century BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians