What was the Ilinden ?

[Ptolemy]

So since our new member is fond of articles coming from greek newspapers let me provide him some of the greek newspapers of that era.

Greek newspaper 'Empros' of that era about Delchev and Ilinden uprising.



The person in the photo as you probably know, is Goce Delchev. Lets see what it says about him.

Translation from greek:

The assasinated BULGARIAN leader of rebels

August of 1903Title

"BULGARIAN UPRISING IN MACEDONIA "

Everybody knew Delchev was a Bulgarian and Ilinden as a Bulgarian uprising.

[Ptolemy]

you made me search about it in greek newspapers.

More about it on 2 August of 1903.



Hmm what does the article says, above the pic of Omer pasha. He is sent to Bitola in order to...chase Bulgarian gangs!!

[Ptolemy]

4 August of 1903...



Title: "The Bulgarian Uprising in Macedonia"

[Ptolemy]

Aside that there is not even one mentioning about "macedonians" anywhere, this last article of 10 August of 1903 is quite interesting. It mentions the destruction of 5 greek villages in the area of Adrianople from Bulgarian gangs, followed by murders, torture and burning some of their houses. However, the best of the whole newspaper, is the last article where it provides statistics about Macedonia.

In Villayet of Monastir, i see there are residing Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Roumans, Ottomans, Jews but not even 1 "Macedonian". Same with Thessalonica Villayet. These poor Bulgarians in self-denial of FYROM, must get a life and stop wasting our time with their fantasies.

[Flipper]

I heard a lot of times people saying the slavs in Macedonia did the revolt cause their condition was severe. I've even heard that the Greeks were responsible for that.

Well, as we all know Macedonia was Turkish land by that time and ruled by Turks. It was they that oppresed the Slavs, the Greeks, the Albanians, The Vlachs etc.

Since Illiden got such an importance I would like to take a look on what the Greeks did before Iliden and what did they had on their mind.

The truth is that way before Iliden the Greeks wanted to do revolts in Macedonia and free themselves from the Turkish rule. The powers had assured Greece that they will help them in their campaign for freeing Macedonia, Thrace and Asia Minor. The result was an organised allied attack to the Turkish rule and not "anarchism"[1] revolts.

This is what the Eaily News said about the matter back in the 23rd of April 1886.




[1] Meaning that local revolts with no coordination center leaded by an organized army.

[Tchakalaroff]

Originally Posted by Ptolemy

First of all Ptolemy, I never said that they didn't call themselfs bulgarians in those days... but I did explain and elaborate why did they call themselfs like that... Because they were fanatic christians, and for them the church that they belonged to was their national identity...
Those that were under the Exarchate were bulgarians, and those slavs that were under the Patriarchy were greeks.. can't you guys understand that....

P.S.
I'm posting the circular leter sent by Dr. Hristo tatarchev (the outside IMORO correspondent) to the representatives of the Great Powers in the start of the Ilinden Uprising:

..........

[Ptolemy]

Originally Posted by Tchakalaroff

First of all Ptolemy, I never said that they didn't call themselfs bulgarians in those days... but I did explain and elaborate why did they call themselfs like that... Because they were fanatic christians, and for them the church that they belonged to was their national identity...
Those that were under the Exarchate were bulgarians, and those slavs that were under the Patriarchy were greeks.. can't you guys understand that....

Utter nonsense!! Certainly Gjorgi Karev - as all those who had the same fate - wasnt assasinated because he was...fanatic christian exarchist but because he was a proud Bulgarian, not wanting to betray his country. On the contrary of your claims, the fact is that all you propagandists misinterpret the regional use of the term "macedonian" and assume or better say preach that all use was ethnic. I hardly can keep myself from laughing, even listening to some morons from FYROM claiming for example Basil I back in 9th c. was an ethnic Macedonian. It is a waste of time even to explain to such jerks that in his time the term Macedonia and "Macedonians" was applied to inhabitants of central Thrace. If you were born in Adrianople, you were a Macedonian. This is why Basil I, a native of Adrianople, was named Macedonian (as well as the dynasty he founded)!!! Same with the so called "Macedonians" of later centuries. Too difficult for you to get it???



Quote:
"I have even met people who believe there is a special race which they call 'Macedonian', whose 'cause' they wish to aid. The truth is, that in a district which has no official frontiers, and never has had any stable ones, there are people of six races, who, as we have seen, all have causes to be considered. "

"I shall speak only of the part I have stayed in- the districts of Lakes Ochrida and Presba. Here there are Greeks, Slavs, Albanians, and Vlahs. Of Turks, except officials and such of the army as may be quartered on the spot, there are few. The Albanians, I believe, are all Moslem. Should there be any Christians they would be officially classed as Greeks. A large part of the land near Lake Presba is owned by Moslem Albanians as ' chiftliks ' (farms). "


"The Burden of the Balkans" By M. Edith Durham 1863-1944, page 76


In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:

"But even stranger is the name "Macedonians", which was imposed on us only 10 to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the "Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is available for examination and study)



"We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian. The Serbian not only want to colonize Macedonia with Serbs from other part of Yugoslavia, but they wish to kill our Bulgarian consciousness. They took our right to call ourselves Bulgarians, even Macedonians, they intrude their schools and education, so much false and Jesuit, so much as the study of St. Sava and finally they come to the idea for the special Macedonian nationality, which they discover in South Macedonia." - Krste Misirkov

I suppose there isnt anything left to say about your gibberish.

[Tchakalaroff]

Ok, I'll say it again...

Originally Posted by Tchakalaroff

First of all Ptolemy, I never said that they didn't call themselfs bulgarians in those days... but I did explain and elaborate why did they call themselfs like that...

Because they were fanatic christians, and for them the church that they belonged to was their national identity... Those that were under the Exarchate were bulgarians, and those slavs that were under the Patriarchy were greeks.. can't you guys understand that....

[pankration]

If one group of slavs is Bulgarian and the other group of Slavs is Greek, which one is Macedonian? I appreciate your earnestness Tchakalaroff but this is getting ridiculous as you keep saying the same thing over and over. Do you think you can convince us merely by repetition? I want you to stay as I find much of what you say interesting but I am sure that you will ridiculed even banned if you continue to spout nonsense. Show us some real, undoctored evidence...please.

[oldjedi]

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the name Bulgar...


Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.

The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"

Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV

This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola, and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from September 17th, 1903.

A part of the text is published on p.435 of Macedonia's Struggle for Liberation (Sofia, 1933, edition of The Ilinden Uprising Veterans' Organization) by Christo SILJANOV - one of the leaders of IMRO and one of the most eminent historians and memoirists that have ever written on the national liberation movement of the Bulgarians in Macedonia and the district of Adrianople.


So , the Ilinden uprising , was an uprising of Bulgarians ...

There is nothing to talk about . 55.000 requests from Fyromias are made to Bulgaria , in order to get Bulgarian passports now that Bulgaria is entering European community ..
Among them L. Georgefski and some more politicians of Fyrom ..

http://www.serbianna.com/news/2006/02122.shtml ( English )

Bulgarian ..
http://news.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=916923
http://news.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=910420
http://news.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=912243

A hint to our Fyromian , foroumer .... Go and request a Bulgarian passport for your own ...It will be the wisest decision of your life ..

Old...