3 clarifications for a FYROMer

[Andrew]

1) For every FYROMER that thinks that he is more blond than the Greeks or the Bulgarians , follows a blondism distribution map in europe



2) If you thing that your ancestors have won over the Greeks in Chaeronea you better consider that cheronea was a greek civil war among two groups of allies: [Macedonians,Thessalians,...] vs [Athenians,Thebans,...]

3) The only FAMOUS conflict that your ancestors (at least those of you that are no Slavo-Bulgars) Paeonians had with a Greek is mentioned in Homer's Iliad in rapsody XXI: It's the conflict between Achilles and the Paeonian Asteropaius (son of Pelegon who is son of the river Axios (Vardar)):

So spoke Achilles, but the river grew more and more angry, and pondered within himself how he should stay the hand of Achilles and save the Trojans from disaster. Meanwhile the son of Peleus, spear in hand, sprang upon Asteropaeus son of Pelegon to kill him. He was son to the broad river Axius and Periboea eldest daughter of Acessamenus; for the river had lain with her. Asteropaeus stood up out of the water to face him with a spear in either hand, and Xanthus filled him with courage, being angry for the death of the youths whom Achilles was slaying ruthlessly within his waters. When they were close up with one another Achilles was first to speak. "Who and whence are you," said he, "who dare to face me? Woe to the parents whose son stands up against me." And the son of Pelegon answered, "Great son of Peleus, why should you ask my lineage. I am from the fertile land of far Paeonia, captain of the Paeonians, and it is now eleven days that I am at Ilius. I am of the blood of the river Axius- of Axius that is the fairest of all rivers that run. He begot the famed warrior Pelegon, whose son men call me. Let us now fight, Achilles."

Thus did he defy him, and Achilles raised his spear of Pelian ash. Asteropaeus failed with both his spears, for he could use both hands alike; with the one spear he struck Achilles' shield, but did not pierce it, for the layer of gold, gift of the god, stayed the point; with the other spear he grazed the elbow of Achilles! right arm drawing dark blood, but the spear itself went by him and fixed itself in the ground, foiled of its bloody banquet. Then Achilles, fain to kill him, hurled his spear at Asteropaeus, but failed to hit him and struck the steep bank of the river, driving the spear half its length into the earth. The son of Peleus then drew his sword and sprang furiously upon him. Asteropaeus vainly tried to draw Achilles' spear out of the bank by main force; thrice did he tug at it, trying with all his might to draw it out, and thrice he had to leave off trying; the fourth time he tried to bend and break it, but ere he could do so Achilles smote him with his sword and killed him. He struck him in the belly near the navel, so that all his bowels came gushing out on to the ground, and the darkness of death came over him as he lay gasping. Then Achilles set his foot on his chest and spoiled him of his armour, vaunting over him and saying, "Lie there- begotten of a river though you be, it is hard for you to strive with the offspring of Saturn's son. You declare yourself sprung from the blood of a broad river, but I am of the seed of mighty Jove. My father is Peleus, son of Aeacus ruler over the many Myrmidons, and Aeacus was the son of Jove. Therefore as Jove is mightier than any river that flows into the sea, so are his children stronger than those of any river whatsoever. Moreover you have a great river hard by if he can be of any use to you, but there is no fighting against Jove the son of Saturn, with whom not even King Achelous can compare, nor the mighty stream of deep-flowing Oceanus, from whom all rivers and seas with all springs and deep wells proceed; even Oceanus fears the lightnings of great Jove, and his thunder that comes crashing out of heaven."

4) Why Alexander I was named "philhellen" if he was Greek ??
watch here: http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ilhellene.html

5) Why Homer doesn't mention the Macedonians in Iliad if they were Greek??
watch here: http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ers-homer.html

6) So if we FYROMers are not Macedonians what are we??
watch here: http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...f-y-r-o-m.html

7) So who were the ancient Macedonians??
watch here: http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...er-greeks.html

8) Is the Vergina Star of the Macedonian Kings a Greek Symbol ??
watch here: http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...n-symbols.html

[Cadmus]

Originally Posted by Andrew

1) For every FYROMER that think that he is more blond than the Greeks or the Bulgarians , follows a blondism distribution map in europe



2) If you thing that your ancestors have won over the Greeks in Chaeronea you better consider that cheronea was a greek civil war among two groups of allies: [Macedonians,Thessalians,...] vs [Athenians,Thebans,...]

3) The only FAMOUS conflict that your ancestors (at least those of you that are no Slavo-Bulgars) Paeonians had with a Greek is mentioned in Homer's Iliad in rapsody XXI: It's the conflict between Achilles and the Paeonian Asteropaius (son of Pelegon who is son of the river Axios (Vardar)):

WOW ! im shoqued to see such a large blond part especially all the way up to eastern Russia!
BTW im from Holland and many many girls here have blond hair, allthough there are many gorgeous brunnetes here!

Myself i have brown hair, but no green eyes like my mom who's from Fyrom.

[Andrew]

Hi Cadmus !!!

I put it up because I have the impression that many of your other compatriots thought that they were more blond and whity than the other Balkans. that map simply shows that anthropologicaly the south Balkanians are all the same
...What do you say ?

BTW I'm blond with green eyes ,and my folks are brunet

And I love brunet girls more than everthing . It's my favorite color in a girl

[Cadmus]

Balkanians are all the same as in appearence..
But in Fyrom u do have some more dark skinned looking bulgarian/gypsy types..

I like the blondes and brunnetes....
But the Dutch girls are my favourite...but i would also like to see myself with a gorgeous firy Italian girl or Greek..a personal Aphrodite if ya know what i'm saying LOL..

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Andrew

1) For every FYROMER that think that he is more blond than the Greeks or the Bulgarians , follows a blondism distribution map in europe

Its highly interesting that this map is in agreement with J. Lawrence Angel's results of anthropologic types in Hellas from 3000BC-1300AD (see American Anthropologist article titled: "Social Biology of Greek Culture Growth" 1946)



That 16.75% average simply can't be overlooked.

[Andrew]

Orphic Hymn .....I love when you talk numbers man !!!!!!


Are we talking of Continuity in Greek Soil ???
Another example of what Cavalli-Sforza ..said minimal genetic shift in Greece during the last 3000 years ????

It reminds me the law of Hardy & Weinberg in population genetics ...When the genes are not correlated with low fitness their frequencies remain constant through generations !!!

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

Its highly interesting that this map is in agreement with J. Lawrence Angel's results of anthropologic types in Hellas from 3000BC-1300AD (see American Anthropologist article titled: "Social Biology of Greek Culture Growth" 1946)



That 16.75% average simply can't be overlooked.

I notished that between the data of 2nd (3000-2000 BC) ans 3rd (2000-1400 BC) the main increment is about the Mixed Alpine and Nord-Iranic ...and the supporters of the IE theory say that the proto-Greeks IE centum speakers settled in greece during the 2000-1800 BC theory !!!
Thanks mate , I needed that stuff !!!

[Orphic_Hymn]

Continuity is a term that I suppose can be used..
Correct me if I'm wrong.. isn't "fitness" used as an indicator of "offspring" and not of strength ?

I notished that between the data of 2nd (3000-2000 BC) ans 3rd (2000-1400 BC) the main increment is about the Mixed Alpine and Nord-Iranic ...and the supporters of the IE theory say that the proto-Greeks IE centum speakers settled in greece during the 2000-1800 BC theory !!!
Thanks mate , I needed that stuff !!!

While I guess the whole paper would help you more.. but here's an abstract related to your "quest":

Third millennium Mediterranean (A plus B) dominance over Dinaroid Iranian and Alpinoid minorities changes about 2000 B.C. to dominance of Nordic-Iranians over Alpinoid and Basic White contrastingly balanced minorities. This change is significant enough to suit invasion, and is followed in L.H. I11 times by overwhelmingly Mediterranean (A plus B) combination with minor Alpine and other (D and E) influence, returning toward the third millennium pattern. In the Early Iron Age significant rise in all three Alpinoid types together (F, E, C) fits intrusion and shows contrast in an even balance of all six types.

and continues...

PHYSICAL CHANGE: SOCIAL BIOLOGY

In Tables 2 and 3 surprising genetic continuity shows in slow but persistently
irregular change from a generalized Mediterranean (types A and B)
dominance toward an Alpine norm (C), combined with minor Dinaroid (e.g. big nose) and other (broad jowls) traits, apparently as new recombination^.^^^
Existence of such a long-term trend does not invalidate the "racial" continuity
first stressed by Koumaris, since isolated villages with occasional population
exchange in early prehistoric or medieval Greece gave ideal conditions
for "evolutionary" change of a socially adaptive but not rapid sort according
to interrelationships between population size, genetic loss, mutation
pressures, and selection effects established mathematically by Wright.ln
Wright could not deal with socially adaptive selective forces. But his proofs
make it unnecessary to suppose virtual replacement or even massive immigrations for change to occur.

[olvios]

This hair thread is quite silly.

[Andrew]

Yes I use "fitness" as survive capacity , that is offspring capacity !!
Thanks for everything !