About FYROMers identity

[Andrew]

I'm a new comer in this forum so I think that I'm going to blow this first message.
Can someone please explain to me why the FYROMers don't want the name Paeonia or Republic of Paeonia knowing that their Territory corresponds better with the Ancient territory of the Paeonians and their only relationship with Macedonia is the region Pelagonia around Monastiri and that Pelagonia was a region inhabited by greek Molossians tribes that spoke a north western greek dialect and as all the other northwestern greeks of the Upper Macedonia only later were politicaly annexed by the Macedonians of the Old Kingdom or lower Macedonia . What do the Paeonians have to do with it ? I think that they fought against Philip II when he became king in a fragile moment for Macedonia ,but Philip won them and made their state Vassal of Macedonia . If the preslavic population of FYROM were there shouldn't they be Paeonians ?
Is there a future for the Greek Makedones the only Makedones or we're doomed to forget our name just because someone else choose to use it for the new millenium ?

[Amarantos]

Βecause the whole issue is not historical ,but political....from its origin until now.

[Draco]

Because in the eyes of the world such a name change will be unreasonable. Most Skopjians have grown up thinking of themselves as "Macedonians", "the Macedonians". It is not easy to suddenly be told that, "for historical reasons", they have to change their name.

The name dispute as it is between the governments of Athens and Skopje is a security issue, not a historical debate. The point of Athens raising the issue is to pre-emptively protect itself against FYROM's future potential expansionist appetites. We see such appetites are already prevalent among the general population and only occasionally filter through the government. In the future, when FYROM is stronger, you can imagine what to expect.

The purpose of the name issue is no longer to "change their name", because, realistically speaking, that is not possible. The idea is to permanently attach a mark of illegitimacy to their identity without actually changing their name. If their identity as the Macedonians is in some way illegitimate, then their claims to all of Macedonia, and particularly Greek/liberated Macedonia, are also illegitimate.

The illegitimacy of the Skopjians as "the Macedonians" stems from the fact that since the Middle Ages (and probably even before then) Macedonia has been a multiethnic place; no one ethnic group, especially one which is a minority in the region, should be monopolizing the name and identity, particularly when the purpose for which that use was devised was to promote territorial claims. There also is the historically dubious aspect of the Skopjians' identity in that it and their language are offshoots of the Bulgarian identity and language.

This illegitimacy-marking can be achieved by the smallest of changes. As I have said before, even a double name for use only in bilateral relations with Greece is a red flag that there is something wrong with these "Macedonians" and that their claims should be treated with caution. After all, which other country has to operate under a double name? There has to be some good reason for there being such a tedious arrangement!

[Andrew]

A double name ???? I think that the world knows them already simply as "Macedonians"
I live in Italy and every time that someone askes me from which part of Greece I am and I say Macedonia then we need to talk for about 15 minutes about disambiguation of the term. If this is the status now that they don't have an official name what will happen when they will have one that contains clearly the term Macedonia. And because I think that someone third has to choose sooner or later how to call FYROM I would like to know what will be his criteria ? What the FYROMers think of them selves , what Greeks think of them , what is the relationship of this population with the word "Macedonia". Even if the issue is purely political shouldn't it have a historical component that verifies or not the authority to use a name and it's heritage? Just because the FYROMers grow up listening that they are Macedonians gives me the right to say that Elvis is not dead but taken by aliens without anyone does some control on my claim ?? I Knew that the world is not fair but I never thought it was that unfair !!!!

[Draco]

I think the solution will be "Republika Nova Makedonija" (in all languages) for use in bilateral relations with Greece, in all international organizations and multilateral relations including Greece, and perhaps in bilateral relations with certain countries (such as the ones which have already indicated that they will accept the compromise international name, like China, France and Russia).

This basically gives us what we want. Whenever Greeks are around (UN, NATO, Olympic Games, even Eurovision) the compromise name will be used, and it will be used in a manner visible to all (the "illegitimacy" promoting, remember).

The world is unfair. We cannot compel them to change their constitution, nor to accept a compromise international name such as, say, "Multiethnic Central Balkan Republic". We have to appear "reasonable" and "easy-going" to the international community; that way, if we veto, we can pin the blame on FYROM.

[Tsontos]

Originally Posted by Andrew

I'm a new comer in this forum so I think that I'm going to blow this first message.
Can someone please explain to me why the FYROMers don't want the name Paeonia or Republic of Paeonia knowing that their Territory corresponds better with the Ancient territory of the Paeonians and their only relationship with Macedonia is the region Pelagonia around Monastiri and that Pelagonia was a region inhabited by greek Molossians tribes that spoke a north western greek dialect and as all the other northwestern greeks of the Upper Macedonia only later were politicaly annexed by the Macedonians of the Old Kingdom or lower Macedonia . What do the Paeonians have to do with it ? I think that they fought against Philip II when he became king in a fragile moment for Macedonia ,but Philip won them and made their state Vassal of Macedonia . If the preslavic population of FYROM were there shouldn't they be Paeonians ?
Is there a future for the Greek Makedones the only Makedones or we're doomed to forget our name just because someone else choose to use it for the new millenium ?

Because the Skopjians have been under a process of "Macedonisation" at the very earliest since the mid 19th century, and undergoing a much more accelerated version of that process since 1944.

[Demetrius Doukas]

You make me really laugh!............................Thank you!
That was fun I liked especially the accelerated version however you must be a scop I suppose to understand the particulars

[Demetrius Doukas]

http://truth.macedonia.gr