"Macedonia's" coat of arms in 1300's ????????

[Nikolaz]

I don't know if you have seen this before (if it is already an answered topic pls give me the link) but I found it an interesting piece of Propaganda that may confuse many people.

A very well-known propagandist in Hi5 groups, in order to prove that "Macedonians" were always seperate from Bulgarians, sent me this image:


He also wrote me:

And just to make another argument about the existence of separate Macedonian nationality I will post the Serbian Tsar Dusan Stefan which Kingdom was even to Peloponesus:
"(Code of) the honorable and Christ-loving Macedonian Tsar Stefan, Serbian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Dalmation, Arbanasian, Hungarian Wallachian and indipendent ruler of many other regions and lands... Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949)."
It is serbian writer and it is published in Beograd.

He also sent me this image, depicting Tsar Dusan Stefan's coat of arms, from the 1300's:


and he wrote me again:

Even on his arms, the top sin. field is Macedonia Arms which is reserved for the most important arms!
Coat of arms from tsar dusan slavic empire, are these recently made coat of arms, because it shows a macedonian coat of arms the Lion thats different from the bulgar one! The LION as our Macedonian and different from the Bulgarian!

He tried to show that he is not Bulgarian,by showing these images of the 1300's.

Does anyone know if they are real or fake?

[Paulos Melas]

http://www.dusanov-zakonik.co.yu/indexe.html

Click on the left hand side the button for "the law" I think this clarifies evrything

[Paulos Melas]

also http://www.oldserbia.plus.co.yu/e_index.htm

and photos of all manuscripts incl rakovak

http://www.guskova.ru/q?a=l&doc=/~ml...onik/rukopisi/

[Jordan Piperkata]

Originally Posted by Nikolaz

I don't know if you have seen this before (if it is already an answered topic pls give me the link) but I found it an interesting piece of Propaganda that may confuse many people.

A very well-known propagandist in Hi5 groups, in order to prove that "Macedonians" were always seperate from Bulgarians, sent me this image:


He also wrote me:


He also sent me this image, depicting Tsar Dusan Stefan's coat of arms, from the 1300's:


and he wrote me again:




He tried to show that he is not Bulgarian,by showing these images of the 1300's.

Does anyone know if they are real or fake?

They are not fake.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Jordan Piperkata

They are not fake.

And serbomans never lie.

[Paulos Melas]

Let me stretch a couple of points here.
Stefan Dusan lived in Constatinople during his youth. He was inspired by the Roman ways and consequently he adopted quite a few of Roman customs. As such he adopted the custom to attach to his name roman victorious titles.
The phrase macedonian tsar, so badly translated in the poor and very limited slavic languages and then translated equally bad from slavic to other languages is in fact a translation of :
IMPERATOR MACEDONICUS meaning " Emperor victorious in Macedonia".
And macedonia here refer to the medieval greek (byzantine) province of Macedonia that Dusan concidered to be the core land around which he would built his empire.
Dusan dream was to create a grecoserbian empire and thus he adopted the style " Emperor of the Serbs and the Greeks".
He didn t say emperor of serbians and macedonians but serbians and greeks considering that the lands that he know have conquered ie Macedonia was in fact inhabited by Greeks.
As for the coat of arms heraldy is attributed to the land and not to any nation.
So the arms of macedonia refer to the arms of the medieval greek province of macedonia that came under serbian rule and its coat of arms were added to the dominions of the serbian kingdom.
Neither the title Macedonicus nor the coat of arms have anything to do with the Kuber Bulgars of Skopje that Tito named "Makedonski" to claim the historical greek province of macedonia one more time.

[slavicwolf]

by macedonian its meant teritory not ethnicity, as no mention of macedonian ethnicity is mentioned but only bulgarian with the same lion in different colours. and also there is dalmatian and croatain are they 2 different people? or does that prove that the coat of arms is teritorial.

[Ehetlaios]

slavicwolf is right.

A Fyromian once showed it to me. Told him that it's pretty interesting that both "Macedonian" and Bulgarian have the same emblem.

[digenis]

In such "books of heraldry" of 14th-18th cent there can be found also the "coat of arms of Thrace" or "Rumelia".

Nobody can deny the existence of Thracian and Rumelian nations too..i guess.

[Tsontos]

Well the supposed title of Dushan given by the FYROmian author, "Macedonian Tsar" is certainly bullshit. Given that he had conquored much of Macedonia, he of course incorporated "Greeks" into his title.

In 1346, Stephen Dushan was crowned Emperor of the Greeks and Serbs at Skoplje, a union organized to resist the advancing Turks. It disintegrated when he died.

Europe: Country by Country, an Evocation of the Spirit, Politics, Personality, History and Future, Flora Lewis, p507

1346, Stefan Dufan was crowned emperor of the Serbs and the Greeks

The Encyclopedia of World History: ancient, medieval, and modern, chronologically arranged, p274