Linguistically: FYROM – from Bulgarian dialect to ‘Macedonian’ language

[KOKO]

Originally Posted by Ptolemy

So what you claim in other words is "ancient Macedonians remained isolated from everybody, never mixed with anyone and waited patiently until 6 cent. AD, Slavs to assimilate them. Of course miraculusly Slavs didnt found anyone else there (paeonians, dardanians, celts,etc were long gone) never mixed with the 'Tatar' Bulgars and certainly not with the Turkic Avars/percenegs/Kumans, etc".

The greeks claim this. When they say that they are the real macedonians it's even funnier (because of the tinks you just said).
Since this is about the language. The ancient macedonian language (what ever it was) is now long dead ancient language. The present day Macedonian language is slavic language, simular to Bulgarian and also simular to Serbian.

[Morphesau]

Originally Posted by KOKO

The greeks claim this. When they say that they are the real macedonians it's even funnier (because of the tinks you just said).
Since this is about the language. The ancient macedonian language (what ever it was) is now long dead ancient language.

You mean this language as per pictures of some artifact and coins? Found in BC.





Same language as todays Greek.

The present day Macedonian language is slavic language, simular to Bulgarian and also simular to Serbian.

Couldn't agree more.

Fixed sorry misquoted before.

[FilipposTheGreat]

Originally Posted by KOKO

The greeks claim this. When they say that they are the real macedonians it's even funnier (because of the tinks you just said).
Since this is about the language. The ancient macedonian language (what ever it was) is now long dead ancient language. The present day Macedonian language is slavic language, simular to Bulgarian and also simular to Serbian.

The only people who believe that Macedonia is not a part of Greece,are slavoskopjans who want to steal the GREEK MACEDONIAN history,land,alexander etc.. but the stupidity of skopjans is endless,because they want to appropriate not only the Greek history but the Bulgarian and some of Albanian and Serbian!!

FYROMians cannot understand that:
Macedonia and Macedonians are a part of Greece like Thessalians,Athenians,Spartans,Cretans,Epirotians, Aitolians,Akarnanians etc...
We don't say that Greeks are Macedonians but MACEDONIANS ARE GREEKS!!

GREECE consists of Thessalians, Athenians, Spartans, Cretans, Epirotians, Aitolians, Akarnanians etc...

GREEKS or HELLENS are ALL THESE TOGETHER!!

FYROM-slavs are not descendants of ancient Macedonians and as a result of Alexander the Great,but they are slavs,bulgarians etc who are brainwashed of lies and bulshits of TITO and next stupid politicians,because they want the port of Thessaloniki and the aegean sea, the history of Macedonia cause they don't have history and the Macedonia province which was and is a part of Greece!!

Alexandros was GREEK and all Macedonians.. Karanus the first Macedonian king was from Argos (Pelloponesos) so he was Greek.. that's why the macedonian dynasty was named as ARGEAD DYNASTY!!

The ancient "macedonian language" was a GREEK dialect and not a different language.. in each city state they spoke a different dialect(Attikisti,Makedonisti etc)..It's like today..in many villages they have their own dialect but ALL these dialects are GREEKS!!
Whatever have ever found about Macedonia were in GREEK language and nothing have ever found in different language!! Because "Macedonian language" was simply a Greek dialect!!

And about the "Sun of Vergina" is a PANHELLENIC symbol which used first by other Greek city-states and after them the greek city-state Macedonia used it as a symbol of the Argead dynasty!!

Even in Pontus,Cyprus,Corinth,Mycenea,Cyclades,Athens and many others Greek city-states they used this symbol.. so it's not only a macedonian symbol,but a PANHELLENIC SYMBOL!!

Like Strabo said.."Macedonia,of course,is a part of Greece"!!!

[gmellos]

Originally Posted by Persey

Finaly !!!

Bulgarians are speaking some kind of macedonian dialect

Not the other way around !!!

Believe what makes you sleep better at night BUT your language IS dialect of Bulgarian!!!!

Originally Posted by Persey

Cyril, Methodius, Clemente, and naum were Macedonian Slavs !!!!!!

IN the FUTURE PLEASE read REAL History books NOT FYROM propaganda crap!!! St. Cyril, and St. Methodius were born in Thessaloniki to a Byzantine Greek drungarios (a military officer) named Leon and to Maria.

NO WHERE does it say that they are Slavic except in FYROM

Originally Posted by Persey

Mongols and tatars for many years, were in war with the Slavs !!!

Yes and they where also intermarrying with them as well!

[Spartan]

Now it seems to me that almost everyone classifies a language by the Literary/Written language of a country to make comparisons and contrast, but completely ignore the SPOKEN dialects. This is quite obvious because SPOKEN dialects have no ARTIFICIAL borders unlike the written. So from what I can figure out is that in actuallity the West-Central Bulgarians and North-East Makedonjians as well as South East Serbians ALL SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE. The only difference comes down to the WRITTEN form which due to obvious historical reasons have been created to differentiate themselves from one another.

Once again MAKEDONJIAN = BULGARIAN.
====================================

This is not deniable when discussing the spoken dialects. So why is it so hard to admit for you MAKs to admit that your language and Bulgarian are the same, except when it comes to the Literary Written language which was created during the late 19th century and 1944.



Shopi (шопи, scientific transliteration �opi; singular шоп, �op, with various regional names also existing) is a regional term referring to the inhabitants of the region of Shopluk (Шоплук, �opluk) located in central Western Bulgaria (around Sofia and the adjacent areas), but also to similar groups in central eastern Serbia (around Pirot) and the Republic of Macedonia (around �tip, Gevgelija and Strumica). In each country the members of the group are considered and self-declare as Bulgarians, Serbs and Macedonians respectively. This article is primarily about the Shopi of Bulgaria.


Dialect

The Shopi of Bulgaria speak a group of related dialects that belong to the "et" (western) group of Bulgarian dialects. Their location makes them one of two continuous transitional dialect groups which separate the eastern branch of south Slavic languages (Bulgarian and Macedonian) from the western branch (the modern forms of Serbo-Croat, and Slovenian). The adjoining dialects situated in Northern Macedonia and Southern Serbia are called Torlakian. The dialects spoken by the Shopi are sometimes collectively referred to as шопски (Shopski), although that is not the accepted term in Bulgarian dialectology. [1] The groups that tend to be most closely associated with that term and to match the stereotypical idea of "Shopski" speech are the South-Western dialects and in particular, naturally, the dialects of Sofia and Elin Pelin, as these are closest to the capital. They differ from standard Bulgarian through a number of characteristic features.

The exposition below is based on Stoyko Storykov's Bulgarian dialectology (2002, first ed. 1962) [1], although other examples are used. The Standard Bulgarian words and sentences are given in romanization, with no attempt at scientific transcription apart from stress marking.

[edit] Features of Shopski shared by all or most western Bulgarian dialects

[edit] Phonology

* The so-called variable /ja/ (променливо я), which corresponds to the Old Bulgarian yat vowel and is realised, in the standard language, as /ja/ or /'a/ (/a/ with palatalisation of the preceding consonant) in some positions and /e/ in others, is always pronounced /e/ in Shopski. Example: Shopski пресно млеко (presno mleko) vs standard Bulgarian прясно мляко (prjasno mljako, fresh milk)

* The verbal endings for first person singular and third person plural have no palatalisation. Example: Shopski седа/седъ (seda, sedǎ) vs standard Bulgarian седя (sedja, to sit)

* There is little or no reduction of unstressed vowels.

* The personal pronoun for the first person singular is "я" ("ja") instead of "аз" ("az").

* The personal pronouns for the third person are masc. он (on), fem. она (ona), neut. оно (ono), pl. они (oni).

* Palatalized /k/ occurs in some cases where it is absent in the standard language. Examples: Shopski макя (makja) vs standard Bulgarian майка (majka) (mother); Банкя (Bankja, a town near Sofia, derived from Бань-ка, Ban'-ka, with a transfer of the palatal sound from N to K)

[edit] Morphology

* The preposition (and prefix) "у" ("u") is used instead of "в" ("v"). Example: Shopski у градо (u grado) vs standard Bulgarian в града (v grada) (in town)

[edit] Features characteristic the South-West Bulgarian dialect group

[edit] Phonology

* In most (though not all) forms of Shopski, the stressed "ъ" (/ɤ/) sound of standard Bulgarian (which corresponds to Old Bulgarian big yus) or yer) is substituted with /a/ or /o/. Example: Shopski моя/мойо маж ме лаже (moja/mojo ma� me la�e), че одим навонка (če odim navonka) vs standard Bulgarian моят мъж ме лъже, ще ходя навън/ка) (mojǎt mǎz me lǎ�e, �te hodja navǎn/ka), (my husband is lying to me, I'll be going out)

[edit] Morphology

* Most often the definite article for masculine nouns is -о (-o) or -от (-ot) instead of -а (-a) or -ът (-ǎt). Example: Shopski отивам у градо (otivam u grado) vs standard Bulgarian отивам в града (otivam v grada) (I am going in town)

* The -ен, -йен/-en, -jen past passive participle ending is used much more extensively in the Shop dialect than in the standard language, which often has -т/-t instead. Example: Shopski умийен ( umijen, "washed"), убийен (ubijen, "killed"), открийен (otkrijen, "opened" or "discovered"), vs standard Bulgarian умит (umit), убит (ubit), открит (otkrit)

* In the past tenses (aorist and imperfect) and in the past participle the stress falls always on the ending and not on the stem. Example: Shopski гле'дах (gle'dah), гле'дал (gle'dal) vs standard Bulgarian 'гледах ('gledah), 'гледал ('gledal) ([i] was watching; [he, she, it] watched)

[edit] Features characteristic of the Sofia and Elin Pelin dialects

[edit] Morphology

* In the present tense for the first and second conjugation, the ending for the first person singular is often -м (-m) and for the plural is -ме (-me) instead of -а/я (-a/ja) and -м (-m), respectively, as in standard Bulgarian. Example: Shopski я седим, ние седиме (ja sedim, nie sedime) vs standard Bulgarian аз седя, ние седим (az sedja, nie sedim) (I am sitting, we are sitting)

* Most often the particle for the forming of the future tense is "че" (če) (Sofia dialect), ке (k'e) or "ше" (�e) (Elin Pelin), instead of standard "ще" (�te). The form "�e" is used in the more urbanized areas and is rather common in the colloquial speech of Sofia in general. Example: Shopski че одим/че (ше) ода (če odim/če (�e) oda) vs standard Bulgarian ще ходя (�te hodja) (I will be going)

[edit] Other features

The /x/-sound is often omitted. Despite being particularly associated with Shopski, this is actually characteristic of most rural Bulgarian dialects. Example: Shopski леб (leb), одиа (odia) vs standard Bulgarian хляб (hljab), ходиха (hodiha) (bread, they went)

[edit] Vocabulary

There are plenty of typical words for the Shop dialect in particular, as well as for other western dialects in general. Some examples are:
Shopski standard Bulgarian translation
сакам (sakam) искам (iskam) to want
чиним (činim) правя (pravja) to do/make
прашам (pra�am) питам (pitam) to ask
чувам (čuvam) пазя (pazja) to keep, to upbring, raise (a child)
спийем (spijem) спя (spja) to sleep
тражим (tra�im) търся (tǎrsja) to search
оти? (oti?) защо? (za�to?) why?
окам (okam) викам (vikam) to shout
кошуля (ko�ulja) риза (riza) shirt
рипам (ripam) скачам (skačam) to jump
мачка (mačka) котка (kotka) cat

[edit]


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[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by Macedoniamilamoja

gREEK ARE GEYS WE ARE THE BEST MACEDONIA UR NAME WILL NEVER BE MACEDONIA

Now your just cutting and pasting your stupidity.

[OptimusMK]

what are you talking about Bulgarians stole the language from Macedonians,they only change some of the letters,Bulgarian language is Macedonian Language

[Christov]

Originally Posted by OptimusMK

what are you talking about Bulgarians stole the language from Macedonians,they only change some of the letters,Bulgarian language is Macedonian Language

At least you understand that it is one and same language.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by Persey

Finaly !!!

Bulgarians are speaking some kind of macedonian dialect

Not the other way around !!!

Cyril, Methodius, Clemente, and naum were Macedonian Slavs !!!

Mongols and tatars for many years, were in war with the Slavs !!!

Macedonian Slavs? Never heard of them. Did they have a kingdom, or a separate language? No, they were illeterate subjects and their Christianization was speeded by the literary Slavonic which was taught to them by St.Cyril, St. Methodius and their disciples.

It was the Bulgarian Khan (Prince) Boris who sent St.Kliment and St.Naum to teach in Macedonia. St. Cyril and St. Methodius were Byzantine Greeks, as it is well known.

[Demetrius Doukas]

Yes the scopian language it may be defined like self existing but only as a political act the exact deffinition for this language is a dialect whatever objections you may have (like Makedonec) it is too near to Bulgarian and is Definitelly Slavic. Yes politically you can call it - Vardarski language, Scopian language or whatever you choose but it has nothing to do with the Macedonian language which is Greek and you have no right from historical, political and any other view to use the world "Macedonian" this is only degradation to the image off all Macedonians around the world who are proud with their language which is GREEK.
P.S.
Alexander would be ashamed to speak your language lets not forget that He himself insisted from some foreign persons to speak GREEK with him, all right?!