Linguistically: FYROM – from Bulgarian dialect to ‘Macedonian’ language

[Demetrius Doukas]

Christov,
in expressing some truths however painfull it may be for some people I do not see this as an insult and generally it is not my style to insult others.
The word "misery" is intended to be understood literally meaning - economically poor (like economic emigrants for example).

[Demetrius Doukas]

Christov,
in expressing some truths however painfull it may be for some people I do not see this as an insult and generally it is not my style to insult others.
The word "misery" is intended to be understood literally meaning - economically poor (like economic emigrants for example).

[Christov]

Originally Posted by Demetrios Doukas

Christov,
in expressing some truths however painfull it may be for some people I do not see this as an insult and generally it is not my style to insult others.
The word "misery" is intended to be understood literally meaning - economically poor (like economic emigrants for example).

Demetrios,
For your information only: economic emigrants are everywhere and from every country.
I hope its true what you say about your style and you won't insult anymore!

[ΒΗΣΣΑΡΙΩΝ]

Originally Posted by slavicwolf

yes i do agree that we are slavs but i dont agree that we shouldnt use the name macedonia as the slavs arrived in the balkans around the 5-6 centuary and as slavs we have lived and fought for that teritory and our ancestors gave their lives for that land, thats why we do have the right to use the name macedonia but only as a geographical term such as say switzerland in which live germans italians and french ppl.
our people on the other hand are slavs (majority) and should not be confused with the ancient macdonians. we also have slavs that live in the greek macedonia, dont tell me you deny that??????

SlavicWolf,
I disagree with D. Doukas. I think your thougts are reasonable : You do have the right to use the name Macedonia as a geographical term.

But don't you agree you have to make it clear that you are different from Greeks using the same name ?

In 1944, Greek citizens, feeling Slavic people, organaised themselves in SNOF, where SN= Sloveni Makedontsi= Slavic Macedonians.

Don't you think you have to use a similar term today, either Slavic or Northern or New or Upper Macedonians, in order to reach a compromise and stop the silly enmity between our nations ?

As for the Slavs in Macedonia, VINOZHITO proves they do exist. But VINOZHITO votes, from 3000 to 7000, and CIA Factbook estimations (pls see website) point to a number between 10.000 and 50.000 people. Assumeing the middle, we have 30.000, in a sea of 2.5 mil Greeks.

For your knowledge, in today's Bulgaria do exist Greeks (Sarakatsanoi), who despite insisting they are Greeks, they do not wish minority status, since long ago they found a modus vivendi with Bulgarians. Their numbers are comparable to the Slavs in Macedonia.

Is it so difficult for these Voskopoulian Slavs in Greek Macedonia to follow the example of the Sarakatsans ?

[slavicwolf]

finaly someone who is realistic on the greek side. yes i know alot about SNOF and SNOV and TOMO and i know what they mean. i agree that there has to be a distinction between greek and slavic macedonia, now slavo-macedonia is unacceptable because of the albanian population, remember macedonia is a switzerland of the balkans where all ethic nationlities are equal. i do agree with northen macedonia

[Foti66]

Originally Posted by slavicwolf

remember macedonia is a switzerland of the balkans where all ethic nationlities are equal.

Let's not get carried away my friend. Fyrom is anything but Switzerland in every way.

[ΒΗΣΣΑΡΙΩΝ]

Originally Posted by slavicwolf

i agree that there has to be a distinction between greek and slavic macedonia,

now slavo-macedonia is unacceptable because of the albanian population, remember macedonia is a switzerland of the balkans where all ethic nationlities are equal.

i do agree with northen macedonia

I agree on all three points above.

As you see, with a bit of reasoning the sillines of the feud between our nations is revealed.

But I am not the Prime Minister of Greece, neither you of FYROM, so that we could resolve the problem !

[slavicwolf]

Originally Posted by Foti66

Let's not get carried away my friend. Fyrom is anything but Switzerland in every way.

not in a economical way of course we are far from it

[slavicwolf]

Originally Posted by ΒΗΣΣΑΡΙΩΝ

I agree on all three points above.

As you see, with a bit of reasoning the sillines of the feud between our nations is revealed.

But I am not the Prime Minister of Greece, neither you of FYROM, so that we could resolve the problem !

very true i couldnt agree with you more.

[Bardas]

This is interesting from Wiki

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According to the militant Macedonian ethnic human rights activists outside Europe, Chris Popov and Michael Radin, the probable number of ethnic Macedonians is about 200,000. According to a study by the Bulgarian Helsinki Committee performed in 1998, the people with a Macedonian national self-consciousness, however, are only between 15,000 and 25,000, whereas the vast majority of the Slavic population has a Bulgarian national self-consciousness and a regional Macedonian identity similar to the Macedonian regional identity in Greek Macedonia (source). Finally, according to personal evaluation of a local ethnic Macedonian political activist, Stoyko Stoykov, it is between 5,000 and 10,000 (source). In the census in 2001 3,117 of the province's population of 341,173 described themselves as ethnic Macedonians; the overwhelming majority declared Bulgarians, 286,491 (the official data in Bulgarian here). In recent censuses Bulgarian citizens are allowed to write in themselves their ethnicity (the questionary could be seen here, see section №14), which means that the actual number is disputed by Macedonian nationalists or their supporters. However, some have complained that they want the option "Macedonian" to be listed (only the three major ethnic groups are) rather than inserted manually.

The low numbers of self-declared 'ethnic Macedonians' in the region is explained by supporters of Macedonism as resulting from repression. They also assert that the number of Macedonians in the province was much larger as recorded by the 1948 and 1956 censuses, claiming that then-Stalinist Bulgaria recognised a distinct Macedonian minority and allowed free self-determination (and implying this is not the case today). This is explained by Bulgarians as being part of the Comintern's and the Bulgarian Communist Party's policy of the time, which supported a USSR-backed admission of Bulgaria to Yugoslavia with the corresponding incorporation of Pirin Macedonia into Yugoslavia as part of the Macedonian Socialist Republic. With the easing of this trend the idea of promoting a separate national consciousness in Pirin Macedonia lost support from the authorities.

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We Greeks are very well aware of the national past time of Skops to invent history and figures, but the above article also brings to mind an interesting questions regarding Greece's slavophones who consider themselves "Macedonians", that if they were concentrated in eastern Macedonia (that being the Greek region) would they then consider themselves Bulgarians today? The UN's predecesor, League of Nations, recognised the Slavic community in Greece during the 1920's as "Bulgarian", not even talking into consideration the slavophones with a Greek national identity. It seems that there really is a thin line as to what defines them as either Bulgarians or (Slav) Macedonians.