The Ethnic and Historical origins of FYROM

[Ptolemy]

See guys what i was telling you about? The typical brain-dead west-bulgarian troll. Signs and start posting the usual boring lines that tens of trolls before him have bored us with "hi i am from 'macedonia' and i am a proud 'macedonian'", continues with the usual trolling posts we are witnessing for years "Alexander hated greeks or at least i think so" and so on. After someone will reply, they will whine all over the place about "haters", "free speech" and whatever they will manage to bring out of their asses.

Sorry troll. All of you west-bulgarian trolls are so boring posting the same gibberish, that i have no doubt at all, even a boomerang wouldn't come back to you. You are validating why all of you trolls are a total waste of our time.

In closing, before this drama wastes more of our time and since as allegedly you have better things to do than trolling and certainly do we, I helpfully suggest that you support your local Search & Rescue Unit, and get lost.

[Ptolemy]

Btw dont expect the troll to go away. They never do.

[Tsontos]

anderson, why are you confusing two discussions? This thread is about the ethnogenesis of the "Macedonian ethnicity" which occured during the mid 1800s and before which time they were universally self-described and foreign attested to be ethnic Bulgarians. That different kettle of fish to the claims about the Macedonians of antiquity being Greek or not. If you want to talk about the Ancient Macedonians there are other parts of the forum. This thread is specifically about modern FYROMacedonia.

[akritas]

Origin of the Slavmacedonians.............

Macedonia has inherited a complex ethnic structure. The largest group, calling themselves Macedonians (about two-thirds of the population), are descendants of Slavic tribes that moved into the region between the 6th and 8th centuries AD. Their language is very closely related to Bulgarian and is written in the Cyrillic script

Defenition of the Macedonian term..........

As described in this articles

introduction, the name Macedonia is applied both to a region encompassing the present-day Republic of Macedonia and portions of Serbia, Bulgaria, and Greece and to the republic itself, the boundaries of which have been defined since 1913. In the following discussion, Macedonia is used generally to describe the larger region prior to 1913 and the area of the present-day republic thereafter.

Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (imro) ....

Macedonian Vatreshna Makedonska-Revolutsionna Organizatsiya , Bulgarian Vutreshnata Makedono-Odrinska Revolutsionna Organizatsiya secret revolutionary society that operated in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to make Macedonia an autonomous state but that later became an agent serving Bulgarian interests in Balkan politics.
'

Founded in November 1893 at Resna under the leadership of Damyan Gruev, Gotse Delchev, and Yane Sandanski, IMRO adopted the slogan “Macedonia for the Macedonians” and a program aimed at winning autonomy for Macedonia from its Ottoman Turkish rulers and at creating a Balkan federation, in which Macedonia would be an equal partner with all other Balkan states.
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Having swiftly gained widespread support among the Christian Slav populations of Macedonia, IMRO began violent anti-Turkish activities in 1897 and in 1903 staged a major but unsuccessful rebellion that was also supported by a parallel, pro-Bulgarian organization, Vzhovists. Subsequently, its organization deteriorated, and, after Macedonia was seized from the Turks and divided between Serbia and Greece (Balkan Wars, 1912–13), IMRO's terrorist bands operated in conjunction with Bulgaria's foreign policy, which was designed to force a redistribution of Macedonia. By the end of World War I, however, IMRO's indiscriminate and unprincipled use of terror had alienated both its Macedonian and Bulgarian supporters.
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Under Todor Aleksandrov, however, IMRO reestablished itself as an influential factor in Balkan politics, particularly by participating in the overthrow and assassination of Bulgaria's prime minister Aleksandur Stamboliyski (June 1923), who had tried to ease relations with other Balkan states. IMRO then obtained control of the Petrich (i.e., the Macedonian) district of Bulgaria and pursued its terrorist activities in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia with the unofficial approval and protection of the Bulgarian war ministry and with clandestine support from the Italian government. After Aleksandrov was assassinated (1924), however, the organization split into two rival factions, which engaged in frequent gunfights in Sofia in an effort to annihilate one another.
In May 1934 Colonel Kimon Georgiev seized power in Bulgaria, arrested IMRO's leaders, and disarmed its members.

[abstracts from Encyclopedia Britannica 2007]

[gmellos]

Very interesting and educational thread! Thank you for posting it!

[OptimusMK]

historyofmacedonia.org AncientMacedonia/GreeceStealingMacedonianHistory.html

[Ptolemy]

Please spare us from your crap. We are all bored to death each day with a new troll and his copy/pastes from your propaganda sites. If you wanna have a constructive discussion about any subject use your own words.

Long copy/pastes from the well-known propaganda sites will be deleted. If you wanna keep up on with the spamming then pick another forum.

[Demetrius Doukas]

Originally Posted by OptimusMK

historyofmacedonia.org AncientMacedonia/GreeceStealingMacedonianHistory.html

You?!The biggest enemies of the Macedonians and stealers of History posting this? Sorry my friend we Macedonians do not read stupidities. I told you to be carefull not to be expelled back in aborigenie republik with your lunacy.......

[Demetrius Doukas]

Originally Posted by anderson

Hey guys

I come from Macedonia and I write Macedonia evrywhere on all formal documents in the UK and honestly I haven;t been asked to do otherwise. I just want to understand what are your opinions here and see what sort of solution can be found.I am a Macedonian now, I honestly am not a great histiry person but I live in the now and that is what I am. There has to be another way?

The solution is found long ago but recently the scopians decided that it does not suit them so they decided to be Macedonians without having any right and being the biggest enemies of Macedonia actually that's why some minorities from them were expelled from Greece in fighting against Macedonians the last century.

P.S. Macedonia is to be found only in Greece scopie has nothing to do with it and is called Vardarska oblast with bulgarian-serbo-albanian population not speaking even Greek.

[ΒΗΣΣΑΡΙΩΝ]

Originally Posted by anderson

But I am not Greek, history always proves to be a bit twisted and I can't feel Greek I am afraid, I am a Macedonia speaking a Macedonian language different from any mostly from the Greek.

Anderson,
Your language is most closely related to Bulgarian. In Bulgaria you are called "Western Bulgarians". But if you believe you are NOT a Bulgarian, then OK, define youself as different.

The only problem is that you use your name as meaning a blood or racial connection with ancient Macedonians. You even erect Alexander's statues, name your airfields as Alexander's etc.

According to the majority of historians (there are different opinions, too ) ancient Macedonians were a northern Greek tribe, less connected to the more cultured southern brothers. There are actually scientists like Borza maintaining that ancient Macedonians were NOT Greeks, but at the same time Borza himself declares that modern "Macedonians"=FYROM people have nothing to do with ancient Macedonians.

So you have the right to call yourself Macedonian on a purely geographic basis, since your Slavic ancestors came in the area 1400 years ago (as attested by schoolbooks in FYROM, I can quote if you like). But you have to make a slight differentiation, so that foreigners understand who you are : Slavic Macedonians, New Macedonians, Upper Macedonians, you choose.

On the contrary, you frantically try to prove that you are the direct descendats of the ancient Macedonians (who never colonised the FYROM area, they lived below the Kaimakstchalan mountain, the Greek - FYROM border). By doing so you try to usurpate Greek History, by trying to extend backwards a national consiousness born at most 200 years before, mainly between intellectuals. The common people sided with intellectuals after WW_II, a 'bit' pushed by TITO.

And there is nothin as 'hatred' against you. We simply wonder "They were Bulgarians even during WW_II, when they applauded the Bulgarian troops entering Skopje, why the hell they became so fanatic now ? "