Slavicised Turks of Vardar

[Tsontos]

The Vardariotes were pre-Ottoman Turks who inhabited the Vardar Valley region (Modern FYROM) and were eventually assimilated by the more numerous Slavs and Christianised aswell. While their language is heavily Slavicised they still retain traits of Turkish speech and some are identified as ethnic Turks despite the majority being fairly completely assimilated.

He drew attention to the Vardariotes, pre-Osmanli Turks , who had become Christianised, had settled in Vardar valley and then had been assimilated by the Slavs. The Uzes were another group of pre-Osmanli Turks who had settled near Lake Ohrid in the eleventh century and had also lost their identity to the Slavs.

-Maps and Politics, H. R Wilkinson, 1951

[Ptolemy]

Let us not forget many historians state that between about 1100 and 1220 the Turkic Patzinaks (Pechenegs) and Koumans (Kumans) have left their genetic imprint on the population of Northern FYROM (Dardania), and more
specifically on the counties of Skopje and KUMANovo. Most of the times i witness any skopjan calling Bulgarians 'Tatars', i remind them, the name Kumanovo comes from the former inhabitants of the town, the Koumans/Kumani, a fine “Turko-Tatar” tribe that a considerable percentage of skopjans from these areas still carry their genes.

[Leonatos]

Originally Posted by Ptolemy

Let us not forget many historians state that between about 1100 and 1220 the Turkic Patzinaks (Pechenegs) and Koumans (Kumans) have left their genetic imprint on the population of Northern FYROM (Dardania), and more
specifically on the counties of Skopje and KUMANovo.

That's right!
After their defeat by the Byzantines these turcic tribes were given lands in Macedonia and thrace, in order to guard the population there and act as police force.
Some Byzantines officials in the 14th century were descendants of hellenised cumans.
Also in the region of Moglena, in northern Greece pechenegs settled and mixed with the indigenous population.

[Leonatos]

the title of the thread is a bit misleading
The cumans and the pechenegs were a turcic tribe but they were not turks, they were cumans &pechenegs.
It is the same thing as the diferrence between German and Germanic.
Franks were germanics but they are not germans

[akritas]

Cumans or Kumans both: kooˈmänz, nomadic East Turkic people, identified with the Kipchaks (or the western branch of the Kipchaks) and known in Russian as Polovtsi.
Coming from NW Asian Russia, they conquered S Russia and Walachia in the 11th cent., and for almost two centuries warred intermittently with the Byzantine Empire, Hungary, and Kiev.
They founded a nomadic state in the steppes along the Black Sea, and were active in commerce with Central Asia and Venice.
In the early 12th cent. the main Cuman forces were defeated by the Eastern Slavs. The Mongols decisively defeated the Cumans c.1245.
Some were sold as slaves, and many took refuge in Bulgaria and also in Hungary, where they were gradually assimilated into the Hungarian culture.
Others joined the khanate of the Golden Horde (also called the Western Kipchaks), which was organized on the former Cuman territory in Russia.

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition Copyright© 2004

[Tsontos]

Originally Posted by Leonatos

the title of the thread is a bit misleading
The cumans and the pechenegs were a turcic tribe but they were not turks, they were cumans &pechenegs.
It is the same thing as the diferrence between German and Germanic.
Franks were germanics but they are not germans

As I understand it the Vardariotes were of the same Seljuk stock and therefore can be called Turks. could be wrong though

[Leonatos]

Originally Posted by Voulgaroktonos

As I understand it the Vardariotes were of the same Seljuk stock and therefore can be called Turks. could be wrong though

No, the vardariotes were not the same as the seljuks.
The vardariotes were probably Hungarians/Magyars, therefore nor turks neither turcic.
The Cumans and the Pechenegs that settled later were turcic but not turkish
All these tribes served in the imperial army and they formed a special unit called skythikon because they fought in the same way as the scythians did in antiquity.

[Tsontos]

My mistake, thought they were of Seljuk stock and therefore Turks.

[akritas]

Leonatos what is the diffrence from turcic and turkish ?

[Leonatos]

it is the same as the difference between the terms germanic and german.
Dutch is a germanic language but it is not german and the Dutch people are also not german, but germanic.
The Franks in the middle Ages were a germanic people but it is false nowadays to say that the Franks were Germans.
The turcic languages include turkish but turkish is not the only turkic language.