The mongoloid origins of the turks

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by Attila

Truth Bearer, I am proud of my central asian ancestry.Nothing's wrong from beeing from central-asia.Japanese are asians, and Albanians are europeans.

Voulgaroktonos, the website i posted you is not made by a pan-turkist and Turan is even not a theory which was told by a Turk or Mongolian first.

I didnt know our pan-turkists were claiming something about Indo-Europeans and like they are all germans. Thanks for informing me. (I even didnt know they had some works about it - if you share the source, i will be glad reading it)

I simply refuse discussing people who has nothing to be proud except their racial theory. I wont move further in this way of discussion, i have just posted you this for making you a decision between religion or race -which might be conflictive to each other sometime-

i think a probablity which makes you confuse about Turks ; you dont need to analyze their races correctly to hate them. And I met Mongolian people who were very honourable, they are even not aware of problem between Greece-Turkey , so i think they dont deserve such a 'hidden' mass-insult about an issue they have nothing to do with. Because to be mongolian is not a crime , even not an important thing.

As a result, what you need will be given always by some theories and they even dont need be satisfied by science or logic.Much effort about such theories may make you feel more pleased about your final feelings, but therefore it has no different than masturbation .

Your feelings are understandable, and what you feel is what you need. So, you are free to hate Turks, but just know its a neccesity.

As a psychatry law, trying to find the scientific reasons or proofs for your belief or feelings may take you in a foolish position , just beware of this .


Kind Regards.

Well said Atila,

welcome brother of war ( i call all Turks that).

Look, my people, they have justified hate , and unjustified hate. I think one way or another most countried have hate for one another, we all have nationalistic agendas, the politicians do anyway, they play of our emotions.

There is one thing though that should awlays be achieved by all, TRUTH.

Do you recognise that your nation inslaved ours? Or do you feel it placed some sort of democracy? Some sort of new way of life that can be used by all humans? Did you bring new technologies or new ideas or philosophy, way of life? Seriously my frined, i dont think your 400 year presence brought anything to my people but misery.....misery that would create hate for your people that still boils.

Look, people tell me, if you guys where so strong why did Turks crsuh you. I say there wa no us, not a mental or a physical level. We where lost, the only light that shone was our language at that time. So many nation shave passe dthrough us i could loose counbt, but we are here, we know who we are, so doe sthe rest of the wordl.

You need to repsect that, and so does the rest of your nation.

I admit, hey, we got our asses kicked back then, why would i deny this? What i do deny is the fact that Greeks lived greater than than what they did before you came as soem new educational books claim back in Greece.(N not sure what the outcome of that was).

Atila,

i look at your nation with much admiration beacuse of your unification when it comes to you nationality. This is what Greeks have lacked 5000 years back.

I guess, when nations liek your came, we remembered most what it ment to be Hellenic, and we have prooved this more than once.

[Ehetlaios]

Exeis ksefygei teleiws.

Lak, without wanting to insult you, I think you have gone soft on them.

[Lakonian]

Ehetlaios,

im mearly approaching this from a neutral point of view...i dont need to insult anyone to get my point across.

Me?Loose my drive? Come on re, you of all people know me

[Kuniska]

Turks are not Mongols per se. They are a bunch of nomadic tribes and they are mixed with other Balkan, Middle East and North African countries.(former Ottoman empire) The point is they are not one nation. They are plenty. They even have our blood in them...They are united though under the name of Turks and that is how they feel with the exception of the Kurds. Tell me exactly Lakonian why did you post this article here? What was its use?

[Kuniska]

oops Ionian Sword... I meant

[Tsontos]

Turks are not Mongols at all! Mongols ruled over the Turkish tribes and about 700 years before 1453 the Byzantines had an alliance with Turks against Mongols!

[Attila]

Originally Posted by Lakonian

Well said Atila,

welcome brother of war ( i call all Turks that).

Look, my people, they have justified hate , and unjustified hate. I think one way or another most countried have hate for one another, we all have nationalistic agendas, the politicians do anyway, they play of our emotions.

There is one thing though that should awlays be achieved by all, TRUTH.

Do you recognise that your nation inslaved ours? Or do you feel it placed some sort of democracy? Some sort of new way of life that can be used by all humans? Did you bring new technologies or new ideas or philosophy, way of life? Seriously my frined, i dont think your 400 year presence brought anything to my people but misery.....misery that would create hate for your people that still boils.

Look, people tell me, if you guys where so strong why did Turks crsuh you. I say there wa no us, not a mental or a physical level. We where lost, the only light that shone was our language at that time. So many nation shave passe dthrough us i could loose counbt, but we are here, we know who we are, so doe sthe rest of the wordl.

You need to repsect that, and so does the rest of your nation.

I admit, hey, we got our asses kicked back then, why would i deny this? What i do deny is the fact that Greeks lived greater than than what they did before you came as soem new educational books claim back in Greece.(N not sure what the outcome of that was).

Atila,

i look at your nation with much admiration beacuse of your unification when it comes to you nationality. This is what Greeks have lacked 5000 years back.

I guess, when nations liek your came, we remembered most what it ment to be Hellenic, and we have prooved this more than once.

1) "Descent" Matter

You and anybody dont need to respect anyone because of nationality. And dont beg people to respect you. If even they do, It has no meaning after you asked them "respect me ".

And do not present yourself like you are "commander of greece" , you are just a citizen who pays taxes and having only political power to vote every election like other milions.

Your all brothers here are "son of alexander" , but nobody here is son of a shoe maker in Athens, nobody is a son of an ancient time prostitute.However the workers and slaves were majority of the society ever. Everyone was not Alexander.(And nationalism even was not a case before 1789). Just like you are today majority of your land - with minimum political power-



2) "Pride" Matter

If my biological brother developed an advanced scientific tool, i would not even be proud of this like "i did" or "we did", cause my brother did , not myself. "Honour" is a personal matter. You cant say you are honorable just because your father is.

And you tell me i will respect "Lakonian" because he is the grand grand grand grand grand grand son ( or he believes he is ) of a nation .

I dont have any idea of honour of your nation, but your personal request here seemed to me pretty much dishonest in human behaviours.



3) "Result"

I will respect you my brother, but not because of your nation, just because you look like you really need it .

Cause it seems, in rest of your life, you will not have any other sort of pride or respect of someone.







Regards

[Lakonian]

????? Look i dont wanna snub this post but its kinda lame. Exactly whats your point? It seems you are trying to psycho analyse me because i ask for respect because i am Greek? Where have i actualy made that evident? It seems you your self carry to much pride

READ.......the request is teh recognition of the Turks inslavement of us, where have i asked for personal respect. Im sorry Atila but your post lacks taste and meaning to what i have pointed out to you brother.

And to be honest, its quite disrespectful of yourself to even question the pride our people carry, and all the people who support our gifts to the world.

And Atila, exactly how many times does your uhm,,,,,civilised nation get recognised to what your contributed to the world?

Oh wait, i do like pide...im joking man, but your right, i shouldnt ask you to respect my ancestors or my nation...you should have that human emotion to do so if you actualy have any remorse, as much as i would look at the Greek Cypriot massacre of the Turks in the south and turks massacre of the Greeks in the North with much disgust!

Your emotional outpour of what you actualy though i was trying to achieve exactly reflects the arrogance most , and i repeat most of your nation shares.

P.S My best man is Turkish, he convirted to Orthodox for me, not to be Greek, this human behaviour and understanding is what separates your people from mine, tolerance for others!


P.P.S Who hear claims to be a direct descendant of Alexander or Leonidas??? But do we deny our culture my friend, and what our ancient forefathers where who WE and by LOGIC many others believe us to be? We have the unbroken language, and the unbroken spirit.

Your nation was conqoured by what we Greeks hated the most, the belief in some sort of devine right to rule over others, and need i repeat what happened to those who tried to push that onto us? You got 400 years of what on us? Nothing man. Now your a dessert who are used for little American run ways and constant empty threats.....your bullies man, and its your people that need a hug.Instead of building with us, beinga brother of war, you still have the brains of sultans.

You wanna question evryones blood line? Who knows,maybe your blood line is of a Kurd?

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Attila

Your all brothers here are "son of alexander" , but nobody here is son of a shoe maker in Athens, nobody is a son of an ancient time prostitute.However the workers and slaves were majority of the society ever. Everyone was not Alexander.(And nationalism even was not a case before 1789). Just like you are today majority of your land - with minimum political power-

Just two short notes..

1) you correctly note a common characteristic of all people worldwide, which is vanity or conceit if you'd prefer but as I said this is a worldwide phenomenon. How many Turks do you know that claim to be the descendant of a Tellak or some poor bastard who converted cause he couldn't stand the pressure or the Jizya?
I bet everyone you know is the descendant of a glorious Gazi warrior.. right? I hope you see the point.

2) As for nationalism, if you have time, try reading Isocrates' Panegyrikos, cause thats where it all started.

[Attila]

Originally Posted by Lakonian

You wanna question evryones blood line? Who knows,maybe your blood line is of a Kurd?

Reminding: I dont question bloods, you are the one who wants to discuss it and i am the one who doesnt recognize and doesnt care it .

I think my post was a lame because i did not accept your virtual-fighting offer you as supporter of greece and i as turkey. You think so, because you did not expect me to not recognize the values you worship. That's the only reason making you angry my friend, if i fought with you in the name of turks you would be very happy ( that's almost all people here hopes - "to be hero of greece by suporting it against a turk" ) but you are still just a citizen and still nothing can do except voting. Sorry, i can not deny logic and truth..

As a person who said things up above, of course to be a kurd would not change anything to me .
If you like to name people , please do name me with the race you think most awful , turk , kurd or gypsy . Just choose one .
And add on the list that all prositutes of the world are my mothers and all homosexuals of the world are my brothers..

so .. Still what i said up above keep its reality.

And maybe you are very proud of the things you believe ( actually to be proud of is the reason of beliefs ) .
But i dont think anyone would be proud of you if even you were a kurd. You are stil not alexander and wont be .


-And someone there asks that how many of Turks are like me.

Just a personal answer ; I have met couple of Turks thinking like me , but i havent met any greece citizen completely thinking like me ( I have been there 3 times - almost totally 1 year-) and many of them were just like you.


i feel shame as a human when i see that some people are motivating themselves to be proud of something created already -with doing nothing else than this - instead of working and trying to create or being one of the creators.

And i dont think you can convince anyone that you are superior , if you dont do anything than beeing proud. You just can masturbate each other.



Your gypsy, kurd, arab, nigger and jew friend Attila




Kind Regards