A question about Jesus and the Gospels

[olvios]

And remember the prerequisites of arete. Paideia . Παιδεια .
Αυτο που λειπει.

[Lakonian]

again i agree with you Olvios, i find it funny how new pagan groups that have risen and are growing in Greece and all over the world think think theyw know what they are doing, its moronic. Our ancestors would be looking down in shame.

Philosophy is my faith, questioning everything i can, if there is no answer there, i look elsewhere....just because im not pagan or orthodox doesnt make me less Greek.

your a pagan? hold on, how can you be? doesnt that make you a neo - pagan?

[Lakonian]

Paideia is something Greece needs right now.

[Ehetlaios]

Originally Posted by Lakonian

Our ancestors would be looking down in shame.

For how many things?

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by Ehetlaios

For how many things?

Take a pen a paper.

[Lakonian]

ENVIROMENTAL
POLITICAL
EDUCATIONAL
HUMANITARIAN
PHILOSOPHICAL
PROTECTION OF OUR MOTHERLAND
RESPECT TO OUR FALLEN HEROS

anyone care to add, how bout we stick to topic and not go into areas that have nothing to do with the subject.

On a religious level they would be ashamed aswell, thso who try to practice the worship of our ancioents have a sick ambition to bring back something they cannot comprehend. Anyone can dress in white and lift his hands up and burn incense and bitch about another religion, what makes it so different from the church? You wanna ressurect something? How bout the level of education that country has( Hellas), i hear now day the majority of the people dont even know how to use a computer? The cannnot remember who our heros are, they have no idea what the national anthem means.

There are riots on the streets because kids want education!

[olvios]

Our civilization is describable in one sentence "all excess is excellent" in direct antithesis with our ancestors "all moderation is exellent"

[Lakonian]

The question is, have we left to much to the church God? I mean we have let go of our control to the point were we are now facing global warming, its as if we want the Revelations to come true, we hunger to see if this day will come when moon turns red locust eat our flesh, dead rise..yada yada....how about actualy taking control of our destiny, how bout reaching for the unknown stars, how about Greece taking the lead again in this time of need, we are the light, i believe that more now than i ever did.

Its up to us to turn things around once again, no one does it like we do.

[olvios]

Στην νομοτελεια του συμπαντος δεν παρεμβαινει ο θεος αλλιως δεν θα ηταν ελευθερος ο ανθρωπος.Η εκλησσια ειναι ενα πολιτικο οργανο που συνυσφερει και θετικα και αρνητικα.Και ως πολιτικο οργανο φθειρεται και διαφθειρεται,φυσικα εχει και εναρετους ανθρωπους αλλα ειναι ελαχιστοι.Πρεπει οντως ο καθε ανθρωπος να κανει αυτο που πρεπει.

[Lakonian]

Here's another dilemma I've been thinking lately, and not only does it prove the incoherence of the Church Christianity, it also demonstrates the internal contradiction within apologetics.

It has to do with God's pure and holy state that cannot abide the presence of a sinner. He is incapable of forgiving sinners without a meditator, and that is the sacrifice of Isous himself, jayzum kerow, alias Jesus Christ. Jesus' sacrifice was necessary, for otherwise, even one little widdle sin would result the utter annihilation of the sinner in the presence of the Almighty.

But here's the crux of the problem, and consequently the incoherence as well as the illogic of Christianity.

If God's presence results in the destruction of the sinner, because of His inability to abide any sin whatsoever, then it makes no difference whether the sinner accepted Christ or not.

The Church teaches us, traditionally, that we have salvation because jesus was crucified on the cross, and his death satisfies God the judge. However, even if Christ's death fulfilled God's justice, there isn't a requirement of personal belief or acceptance of Jesus Christ.

God the judge demanded a price for sin, and the death of Jesus Christ paid for it. The Christian would insist that this price includes our true repentance as well, but if it is up to us to truly repent, then we are the ones who determine our salvation, not God. God cannot force us to submit to salvation, else he overrules and overrides human free will. That is one prong of the dilemma, and there's another.

Even if the believer "accepts Jesus Christ" in his heart, why doesn't the presence of God obliterate the sinner? It seems like the only remedy is the sinless nature of Jesus Christ (or the Holy Spirit) "indwells" with the believer and acts as a shield. Yet, this solution is fraught with problems: why doesn't this affect free will? If Christ's pure nature is in a person, then the person's free will is overshadowed and rendered mute. As long Christ is in a person, the person cannot sin because s/he no longer has any sinful nature or even the ability to sin. But this is impossible, for there is no christian who won't slip up and sin on occasion.

Now, if God cannot abide sin, and Christ is the only way a person can be in God's presence, how can the Christian sin at all? Furthermore, if the christian does sin, and then dies, what happens to him/her when brought before God?

The concept of God in Christianity is a judge, and must include some sort of sacrifice, but acknowledgment (repentance) is unnecessary.

If God's nature destroys sin, then Jesus Christ cannot be the bridge between God and the sinner unless his nature indwells fully with the believer. But there is no perfect, sinless Christian.

Incidentally, if God's presence blots out sin, then the idea of hell becomes absurdly immoral, for God would have to deliberately maintain the sinner alive in order to torment and punish him eternally. In addition, since there is no hope for rehabilitation in hell, the divine punishment is excessively cruel. Neither God nor the sinner benefits, for the sinner cannot repent, and God is no longer infinitely merciful.

Bottom line: if God's presence erases sin, and the sinner cannot survive in such divine presence unless Jesus Christ's sinless nature dwells in him, but this "indwelling" will obstruct free will, for the believer will not be able to sin, and this is obviously false.