Greek presence in Skopje during the middle ages?

[Kritikos]

Hello guys,i am quite an old member in motw,even if i dont post much.

I would like to ask whether there are any sources about greek population in Skopje from 11th century onwards,as i have a debate with a slav macedonian in another forum,and i have quite the feeling that he doubts it.

Thanks in advance.

[Vasiliye]

Originally Posted by Kritikos

Hello guys,i am quite an old member in motw,even if i dont post much.

I would like to ask whether there are any sources about greek population in Skopje from 11th century onwards,as i have a debate with a slav macedonian in another forum,and i have quite the feeling that he doubts it.

Thanks in advance.

1. In the second half of 14th century, monk Isaiah said that Ugljesha has risen Serbian and Greek army (Srbskija i Grchskiija voiska) and his brother Vukashin,and with that army they confronted the invading Turks.
Novakovich,S. "Srbi i Turci XIV i XV veka , 1893,pp.184,
Mikloshich ,F. "S.Joannis Chrystostomi homilia in ramos palmarum", 1845, pp.71
Mikloshich,F. "Chrestomatia Paleoslovenica", 1861, pp 41

2. Archbishop of Ohrid Avram in 1634 arrived in Russia with escort.When asked,they said they were Greeks from the Serbian land of Ohrid (Grechane Serpskie zemli iz Ahridona Goroda) . Archive of the Russian Ministry Of Foreign Affairs, Year 7142,No 8


3. In 1667 Emperor Leopold gave some privileges to the Greeks (Graeci) and Serbs (Rasciani) who emigrated toward Northern Hungary and most of them arrived from Macedonia (Praesertim autem ex Macedonia adventum) . Vitkovich,G "Glasnik Srpskog uchenog drushtva",67,1887,pp.128;pp.131




4. In 1680 Archbishop of Skoplje writes about Serbia and says that Skoplje is capital city in Serbia (Scopia....metropolli di Servia) .Further,He mentions that Orthodox houses in Skoplje are Greek and Serbian (Case Greche e Serviane) . Theiner,A. ibidem, pp. 220

5.Canonical Visit by Archbishop of Skoplje Peter Bogdani in 1680 indicated that inhabitans of Skoplje are "Greeks, Serbs, Jews, Armenians".
"Scritture orig. rif. nelle. congr. gen. vol. 482 ad congr. die 5 maii 1681 Nro 24"

6. Catholic Archbishop of Skoplje Matija Masarek, an Albanian, reported that the city as inhabited with "Grece, scismatici Serviani, Ebrei et Armeni" in a report written c.1770.

In 1790 he mentioned in his report that Turks are suspicious of Greeks and Serbs of Skoplje because they have sent letters to Russia.

"Scritture rif. nei congressi - Servia. Vol. III", marzo 1790

[Kritikos]

Thank you so much Vasiliye,for your insightful answer,i was wondering if there are any older sources than 14th century. I have a feeling that a possible counter-argument would be ''the demographics of 14th century are certainly much different than those of 11th /12th.'' I am not interested whether they constituted the majority of the city or not,(i doubt they would anyway)a simple notification of their presence in any historical source would be enouph,in my humble opinion,to clarify the ethnographic situation of that area.


You have been most helpful,anyway,thank you for your time.

[akritas]

The frontier of the Hellenism was the Meliniko (Melnik).The Arab traveller Idris writing in the 12th century, considered Meliniko one of the principal towns in the land of the 'Romans', and spoke admiringly of its well-cultivated plains and the surrounding villages . The inhabitants of Meliniko were pronouncedly conscious of their nationality, and for that reason in 1246 when the emperor of Nicaea, John III Ducas exposed to the attacks of foreign peoples. After many vicissitudes it fell into the hands of kral Stephen Dusan, and on his death it passed to Ugliesa with the districts of Serres and Nevrokopi.
The boundary between Byzantium and Serbia in the region of Macedonia lay further north than Serres, Melnik, Strumica, Prilep and Ohrid that is to say, beyond the present Greek frontier.
All the above came from Vakalopoulos book (History of macedonia)

Also George Ostrogorski (Byzantine Cities in the Early Middle Ages) has made a close study of the registers (πρακτικὰ) of the Byzantine census officialswho made a record of all the villages, property, names of proprietors and their families, the nature and size of their possessions, the number of bests,the amount of tax they had to pay, etc. He has come to the conclusion that the Slavonic names — of both individuals and families — are generally fewer in Chalcidice and the theme of Thessalonica than throughout the theme of Sérres and the Strymon (at least in the villages of the katepanikia of Zavaltía and Popolía that lie in the southern section of the Serres-Strymon theme). For the central section of the theme we possess no praktikon, but Christian Greek names are everywhere in the vast majority , a fact which has a definite bearing on the composition of the population or, at least, on its thorough hellenization. As for the place-names, Ostrogorski, speaking of the whole of Eastern Macedonia, asserts that Slavonic names are more common than Greek, though he admits that at that period, when nationality did not mean what it does today, Greek statesmen and writers did not change foreign place-names. Finally he notes that it is not certain if the inhabitants of certain districts with Slavonic place-names were in fact Slavs.

These are the informations that I have....
Skopje was under Serbial rule until 14 cent, before it felt to the Ottomans.