Graeco-Phrygian group

[Andrew]

After the work of Claude Brixhe in the Phrygian language (Brixhe-Lejeune 1984) linguists generally agree that this language (the tongue of the ancient Phrygians extinct long time ago) is the closest relative of the greek language. Their exact relation is that of two daughters of the same precursor that we shall name Graeco-Phrygian language .

Here's what eminent linguists like Brixhe, Masson, Mallory, Adams, Renfrew , Woodard and Fortson have said:








I hope that you have noticed the Phrygian inscription "Midai Lavagtaei Vanaktei" ... it's translation into ancient greek is "Μίδᾳ ΛαFαγέτι Fάνακτι" ("Midai Lawageti Wanakti" = "to king and people's leader Midas").

The similarity with the Greek is trully astonishing !!!

Greek and Phrygian are both Centum indoeuropean languages of the East group. Centum of the East group means that their precursor has abandoned the Steppe Homeland a little before the "Satem" innovation (a couple of centuries after 3000 BC). This means that the Graeco-Phrygian language was spoken somewhere in the Balkans after 3000 BC and before 2000 BC , when the Greeks were already infiltrating Greece.

The best candidate for the Graeco-Phrygian group is the Bubanj-Hum II culture in south Morava and Kosovo (ca. 2800-1900 BC). Around 2500 BC a part of this culture's population migrates southward and settles in Pelagonia (northwestern Macedonia , Supljevac-Bakarno Gumno culture) and north Epirus (Maliq culture , Albania , south of lake Ohrid). The part that remained in situ will maintain some of the Bubanj-Hum II elements , but will also later receive further "Balkan" influence both Northern (Baden , Urnfield , Lausitz) and Eastern (Crna Voda III , "Thracian"). The final result will be it's transition to the Mediana group near Niss after 1900 BC , when most of the earlier Bubanj-Hum II territory will pass in the Bubanj-Hum III phase (starting ca. 1900 BC) showing elements of both Thracian and Dalmatian influence (Bubanj-Hum III is the cultural precursor of the historical Dardanians , a mixed Thraco-Illyrian population). The Bubanj-Hum III populations will gradually displace the Mediana versus south and versus west. The final result is that the Phrygians of the Mediana group will continue to be relatively contiguus to the northern Greek population that long before had moved southwards to Epirus & Macedonia.

The link between proto-Greeks and Bubanj-Hum II culture is archaeologically documented. A number of elements that the proto-Greeks brought with them in Greece can be traced a bit earlier in Bubanj-Hum II and in it's southern extensions in North Epirus and Pelagonia. These elements are:

1) The Pseudominyan Gray Ware . It's a kind of pottery that first appears in Bubanj-Hum II , migrates in Pelagonia & North Epirus where it "matures" in Minyan Ware , that is the Ware that has infiltrated Greece during the "coming of the Greeks" and Schlieman has traced in Orkhomenos of Boetia (and thre for named it after the legendary local king Minyas).

2) The Megaron structures and the Apsidal Houses. The first were the habitations of the Mycenaean chieftains until the adoption of the Minoic Palatial structures , meanwhile the latter were a new shape of common dwellings different from the earlier Rectangular ones. Both these structures can be traced in the Gradac hill of Vucedol (very close to the modern city of Skopje) around 2500 BC , that is around the time that Bubanj-Hum II migrants have passed from there uriong their southward expansion.

3) The Earliest "Centaurus Figurine" has been found in Bubanj-Hum I culture (ca. 3000 BC) and this probably means that the proto-Greeks have adopted their "centauric myths" during their stay in Bubanj-Hum II and brought with them in Greece.

4) As we said above the remnant Bubanj-Hum II culture will finally evolve in the Mediana Group of Niss which much later (around 1200 BC) will invade Macedonia. At the same time we have the historical certainty that the Phrygians (with a language that has many similarities with Greek) have indeed invaded Macedonia and Epirus at the same time.

So starting to diverge as different dialects of the same Graeco-Phrygian precursor when the proto-Greeks have moved southwards around 2500 BC , Greek and Phrygian must of have been mutually intelligible before evolving into distinct unintelligible languages. Let's consider the relation of Italian and Spanish. Both languages originated as regionally different dialects of Late Vulgar Latin. Most linguists agree that the two languages were mutually intelligible until sometime around 700 AD , meanwhile they were already unintelligible around 1700 AD. From other similar examples we arrive at the same conclusion: The "latency period" during which two dialects evolve in different languages is about 1000 years. Applying the same criterion in the Graeco-Phrygian case we can hypothesize that starting from 2500 BC the two languages were mutually intelligible until some time around 1500 BC.

The proto-Greeks from Maliq initiate to infiltrate Greece proper around 2100 BC (arriving at Lerna in the Peloponnesus around 1900 BC) , meanwhile the Pelagonian proto-Greeks will remain in Pelagonia for a couple of centuries and , later , around 1800 BC due to Balkan pressure will move southwestwards settling in the territories that the south Greeks have abandoned.

The division of the Early Greeks between : "Early invaders" (Maliq IIb) and "Pelagonian dwellers" who lateron moved southwestwards to Epirus is the geographical-historical basis of the "Risch & Porzig classification of the Greek dialects" :



As you can see the "Early invading" Greeks are linguisticaly belonging to the "South Greek group" and will evolve in the Mycenaeans during the second half of the second millenium BC and after 1000 BC will give birth to the Attic-Ionic and Arcadocypriot dialects. The "Pelagonian dwellers" that stayed in the north are the linguistical "North Greeks" and form the bulk from which Macedonians , Epirotans , Aeolians , Dorians and NW Greeks will stem. As you can see above the separation of the Aeolic and Doric dialects is calculated by Risch & Porzig around 1200 BC , the time that the Phrygians will descent to north Epirus and Macedonia pushing the northern Greeks southwards. The final result is the "Dorian Descent" , the arrival of the Thessalians in Thessaly from Thesprotia and the arrival of the Macedonians , Magnetes and Perrhaebians in West (mountainous) Pieria and Perrhaebia. Shortly later , Thracians will drive away the Magnetes from coastal Pieria south of the river Peneus.

In the same time the descending northern Greeks will press the south Greeks (ex Mycenaeans) prompting their migration in the Aegean islands and the coast of Asia Minor. Lesbos and the nearby mainland will become Aeolian , meanwhile the Aegean islands and southcentral Asia Minor coast will become Ionian.

In this situation :

1) The Macedonians are neighbours of the culturarely advanced Phrygians and will be massivelly influenced by them both culturarely and linguisticaly (Brixhe's model of Phonological osmosis)



2) The Dorians end up in the Peloponnese where they will be influenced by pre-Dorian Greek elements that will inevitably "southernize" proto-Doric Greek into classic Doric.



3) Lesbian Aeolic will be massively influenced by the nearby Ionians , meanwhile the "Helladic" Aeolian of the Thessalians and Boetians will maintain many similarities with the Western daughters of Northern Greek (Doric , Macedonian , Epirotan etc)

The whole history and "arborization" of the initial Graeco-Phrygian group can be seen in the following graphic. The circles represent "Isochronic lines" , that is are indicators of time , meanwhile the horizontal axis represents geographical location (north vs. south) and eventual migrations in this direction.



After presenting the general context above we can now speak of some specific linguistic considerations.

1) The original Graeco-Phrygian group being a "dialect" of Late Centum Proto-Indoeuropean used the "VOICED & ASPIRATED" consonants [*bh,gh,dh] , which in "standard" Greek will become "DEVOICED & ASPIRATED" [ph,kh,th or pre-late Classic greek φ,χ,θ] , meanwhile in Phrygian -as in every other Paleo-Balkan language- will become "VOICED & DEASPIRATED" [b,d,g or pre-late classic Greek β,γ,δ].

2) The main reason for which the ancient Macedonian idiom has been "accused" as non-Greek in the past is that it shares the "Balkan trend" of "voiced & deaspirated" forms instead of the "standard" Greek "devoiced & aspirated" one. For instance , in Macedonia the name Φίλιππος has been found also writen as Βίλιππος or the month names Ξανδικός and Ὑπερβερεταίος instead of their "standard" Greek forms Ξανθικός and Ὑπερφερεταίος. Finally , the greek word Χθῶν ("Earth") is the "standard" greek analog of the Phrygian Γδονα (Mygdonia) , yet the other "standard" greek words for "Earth" Γῆ/Γᾶ/Γαῖα/Γόνα and Δῆ/Δᾶ/Δόνα/Διώνα seem to derive from Γδῶνα rather than Χθῶν (or if you like have followed parallel paths with Phrygian). In the same time , there are clear indications that the Macedonian idiom didn't use the "Balkan trends" exclusively. For instance , in Pieria (the Macedonian homeland) the toponyms Φυλάκη and Λείβηθρον as well as the rivername Βαφύρας have not only perfectly greek etymology (as every other toponym and hydronym of the Macedonian homeland), but also perfectly greek phonology.

3) Interestingly , these "apparently non-Greek" trends have been found in all the greek dialects , often in the Northern ones and rarely in the Southern ones. For instance , the only case this feature appears in Attic is in the bird that Aristophanes names Κεβλήπυρις , instead of "Standard" Greek Κεφαλήπυρις. The northern Greek dialects on the other hand are full of examples of this trend. For instance , Doric βώνημα , Κόροιβος , Elean βρα , Aeolic Βοῖβη (a lake linked with Apollo Φοῖβος) , instead of their "standard" forms φώνημα , Κόροιφος , φρατήρ , Φοῖβη. In the same time , the above mentioned "Macedonian" month names are also found in other northern greek tribes : Ξανδικός was also a (Aeolian) Perrhaebian month , meanwhile Ὑπερβερεταίος was also a Cretan Doric month.

After this consideration it is more accurate to say that the "Paleo-Balkan trends" are very frequent in the Macedonian dialect of Greek , less frequent in the other northern Greek dialects , and very rare in the South Greek dialects. So rather than a distinction between "Greek" and "non Greek" features it is better to speak of a continuous and decreasing (moving from north to south) frequency of "balkan trends" within the Greek dialects. The Macedonian high frequency is explained by the fact that the Macedonians in High Pieria were the only Greek tribe that has maintained a strong contact with the Phrygians , during the period of Phrygian advanced culture (1100-900 BC) in the Central Macedonian Plain. This "cultural gradient" was the reason why "Phrygian trends" were admired and emulated by the Macedonians (Claude Brixhe's model of "phonological osmosis").

But it is erroneous to consider ALL the Macedonian "balkan trends" as Phrygian loans , but it is more accurate to consider some of them as loans and some of them as "internal northern Greek developments". Afterall , the Dorians were driven away by the Phrygians and were already in Peloponnesus around 1100 BC when the Phrygian culture has started to flourish. Knowing also that the Illyrians have moved south of the lakeland after 1050 BC , we can be almost certain that the Doric "balkan trends" have been brought to Peloponnesus from the north as "Northern Greek trends" rather than "non Greek loans".

4) At this point a reasonable question should be : "Why didn't the southern Greeks affected by these "Balkan trends" ?"

To answer that we must view the geographical situation of the Bubanj-Hum II culture (Graeco-Phrygian) and it's relation with the other Paleo-Balkan indoeuropean speaking groups around 2400 BC



As you can see the proto-Greek group can be divided in a "Northern" and a "Southern" variant. The Northern variant is completely insulating the Southern one from the other Inner Balkan groups , meanwhile it self is in contact with both the emerging proto-Phrygian group and the Paeonian one. The Phrygian group on the other hand is in contact with both the Paeonian group and the Italo-Celto-Illyrian group ( and we've seen above that Phrygian shares some isoglosses with Latin). In the same time , the Southern Greek group is in contact only with the anatolian group.All this permites us to postulate:

1) Graeco-Phrygian used the VOICED & ASPIRATED PIE [*bh,gh,dh]

2) Deaspiration [b,d,g] was a "Balkanian innovation" that has affected all the Inner Paleo-Balkan IE languages and also affected completely Phrygian.

3) This happened in a time when proto-Phrygian was still mutually intelligible with proto-Greek and in close contiguity with the northern Greek group. So the Phrygian acted as a vehicle that partially "Balkanized" the northern greek group phonologicaly.

4) In the same time , the "insulated" Southern Greek group was in contact with the culturarely advanced Anatolian group who is characterized by a "DEVOICED & DEASPIRATED" Set [p,t,k] (example Hittite nepis = "sky" compared to Latin nebula and Greek nephele or Hittite tehhi = "I place" compared to Greek tithemi and Sanskrit dadhami ).

This means that the PIE Set [*bh,dh,gh] of the "insulated" southern Greek group has interacted with the Anatolian [p,t,k] Set and formed the "standard" Greek Set [ph,kh,th] and this influence became stronger when the proto-south Greeks have reached Greece proper where a stronger interaction with the pre-Greeks took place.

All the above indicate that the Proto-Greek group was devided in a southern Greek group with a Set [*bh,dh,gh >> ph,th,kh] and a northern Greek group exposed to the "Inner Balkan" Set [*bh,dh,gh >> b,d,g]. The final "standardization" of the south Greek phonology was due to the cultural advantage that the South Greeks (Mycenaeans) gained over the Northern Greeks who entered the south Greek cultural sphere, which made the latter adopt the phonology of the former by the same mechanisms (cultural gradient , admiration , emulation - "phonological osmosis") that made the Macedonians later to adopt more "Phrygian" trends during their interaction.

[Cadmus]

(Bubanj-Hum III is the cultural precursor of the hisorical Dardanians , a mixed Thraco-Illyrian population).

I dont understand!? BH II is Greaco-Phryghian no?
BH III is dardanian....BH I is Paeonian then what BH are the Illyrians?? BH III?

If BH III there shoud be shared a Illyrian Dardanian similairity...

And if Graeco Phryghian is BH II ...then wouldnt the Phryghians arrived around the same time as the Greeks..??

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Cadmus

I dont understand!? BH II is Greaco-Phryghian no?
BH III is dardanian....BH I is Paeonian then what BH are the Illyrians?? BH III?

If BH III there shoud be shared a Illyrian Dardanian similairity...

What's not to understand Cadmus ?? Illyrians never were BH !!! Thy were further north ...Belotica-BelaCrkva & Glasinac !!!

Dardanians became massively Illyrized during the Illyrian expansion (after 1100 BC). From 1900 BC to 1100 BC Kosovo is BH III and that culture was a Dalmato-Moesian cultural mix. They were the Thunakii (Moesian) and they "used" a Dalamatian cultural component before that becomes "ingridient" of the proto-Illyrians further north. So we can see the Dalmatian cultural influence as a "predisposition" factor for future Illyrian interaction. Around 1100 BC the Illyrian Galabri will impose themselves as masters of the Thunakii and after 900 BC the mixed population will form the historical Dardanians as we know them.

Originally Posted by Cadmus

And if Graeco Phryghian is BH II ...then wouldnt the Phryghians arrived around the same time as the Greeks..??

...that's what I said above Cadmus ....isn't it obvius ?? the ancestors of the Phrygians came with the ancestors of the Greeks in a undifferenciated group that we call "Graeco-Phrygian" that formed BHII in Juzna Morava...the separation of the two became in Juzna Morava ..around 2500 BC when the ancestors of the Greeks choose to migrate southwards in Maliq & Pelagonia. S othe BHII that remained back became the proto-Phrygians by forming the Mediana Group that was gradually displaced by "newcoming" BHIII.

(CAH III1, 181 page)

The Mediana group is well known and has been studied on the eponymous site of Mediana (Brzi Brod) near Niss, although other sites on the Juzna Morava watershed have been studied only sporadically. The settlement lies on the terrace of the old bank of the river Nisava. It has been possible to establish three phases within which the shapes gradually evolved. The initial phase can be dated right at the end of the Bronze Age and the remaining two phases in the period of transition to the Iron Age. The last phase contains rich material pertaining to the Psenicevo group of Thrace, which is related to Troy VII B2. There is no doubt that connexions existed between the Mediana group and that of Paracin and Slatina and that it played a significant part in the migrations of the Balkan tribes towards Macedonia at the time of the Aegean migration

So Mediana group :

1) In BH-II territory
2) Dating 1400-1100 BC
3) Invated Macedonia
3) Located also in Thrace and Troy VIIB2 (1050 BC)

We know about the Phrygians

1) language very akine to Greek
2) Invated Macedonia around 1150 BC
3) Started migrating in Asia Minor terrestrially through Thrace from 1050 BC onwards and complited the migration around 850 BC.

Wha tdo you say Cadmus ??? In my eyes Mediana screams "I am the Phrygians !!!!"

[Andrew]

Now Cadmus here's something that you'll like buddy!!!! Camdus & Armonia in Lychnidus could be Phrygians ...remnants of Phrygian control of the lakeland :

Semele , Cadmus' daughter and mother of Dionysus is a loan into Greek from the Phrygian godess Zemelo ("Earth Dodess" compare to Greek χαμηλός = "Earth-level"/"low" , Homeric χαμιεύμαι = "sleeping on the Earth" , phrygian zam-/ greek χαμ- from PIE *dhgham = "Earth").



Now this guy makes the "old" mistake to associte Thracians and Phrygians ...meanwhile if you red the posts of modern linguists the Thraco-Phrygian connection does not exist ...Phrygian is Centum , Thracian is Satem ...and Graeco-Phrygian is far more probable !!!

So Dionysus instead of a Thracian God ...is far more probably a Phrygian god , sinse his mother is a Phrygian Godes (Semele << Zemelo).

Plus !!!! , The Mediana Group is centered in Niss in Nisava (ancient Naissus) , one of the candidate cities of Dionysus origin !!!! ("Dias Naissus" = "Zeus from Naissus" >> Dionysus)

Wikipedia on Niss : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C5%A1#History

The city's early name under the Roman Empire remained Naissus, which is the Latin name derived from its original name Naissos ("city of the nymphs"), a Greek colony founded in antiquity.

The etymology of the original name Naissos ("city of the nymphs") was derived from a mythical creature of Greek mythology - Naiad (from the Greek νάειν, "to flow," and νἃμα, "running water") which was the nymph of freshwater streams rivers and lakes. At the time when Greek colony was founded, the local residents believed that the numerous surrounding ponds, bogs, and the moor on the left riverbank were inhibited by the nymphs. Niš is a possible location of Nysa, a mythical place in Greek mythology where the young god Dionysus was raised.

Let's put it all together :

Dionysus is a Phrygian loan to Greek , sinse his mother Semeli corresponds to the Phrygian Godess Zemelo. Furthermore , the Phrygians as bearers of the Mediana Group used to live in Niss (Naissus) and this was sinse antiquity a candidate "birthplace" for Dionysus ("Zeus of Naissus"). Semele is presented as a daughter of Cadmus (a phoenician) and we find Cadmus in a myth ruling Lychnidos ...sinse the innland Lychnidos is the last place where a maritine Phoenician would go ...we must re-elaborate a bit ...

Cadmus means "bright" and "bright/brightess" is the theme of the word "Phrygian/Brygian". Furthermore , Semele was burned (Greek Phrygo = "to burn") by the "brightness of Zeus".To all that add that indeed Phrygians have ruled the lakeland from 1200 BC to 1050 BC ca.

The conclusion is almost inescapable !!! Dionysos & Semele are Phrygian Deities that the Phrygians (Mediana) brought from Naissus when they invaded Macedonia and Epirus ...they ruled the lakeland for 1-2 centuries and the myth of Cadmus ("bright") was created !!!

[Flipper]

It was about time!
Phrygian is officially my favourite foreign language. I'm pretty good at it now, to be able to translate some inscriptions almost on the fly

Andrew, you said about Phrygians comming with the ancestors of the Greeks...Like Greeks, I don't think Phrygians came as Phrygians to the Balkans. They developed in a similar way like the Greeks, with the same basis. They were a part of a shared development with the mello-Greeks. There's a common linguistic ancestry in both nations.

A typical example...

Phrygian word for "self"

nom. αυτογ
acc. αυτουν
dat. αυτοί
dat. αυτοϋ

which in Greek is

αυτό
αυτού
αυτόν

Words + Grammar almost the same...

Some other examples, that you won't see in books often...

Phrygian Greek English
Αινί Αινίζω I approve
ΑρκεFαίς Αρχιερεύς Arch-Priest (suprisingly few linguists have guessed this one)
Βάγος Βάγος (Doric) Leader
Βέρω (Αββερέτ) Φέρω (Να φέρω) I bring (to bring)
Γεγρειμένο Γραμμένο Written
Εκαταία Εκαταία Food offering (usually to poor)
Εκεί Εκεί There
Έτι Έτι Moreover, in addition, and
Κε Και And
Κναίκα Κυναίκα (Myc Gk) Woman
Κτέβο Κτέανον Property
Ξεύνα Ξένα Foreign (plural)
Λακέδω Λακεδών (voice, shout) I call/Voice
Σορού Σοροδαίμων Old man who's heading to his death

Those are just some words I can remember for around 200 inscriptions i have seen...No need to give examples like kakon, ouranos, Deos and other obvious cognates. What i have noticed in Greek and Phrygian is that the pre-Greek words are heavily influenced by Luwian (e.g Thalassa - Alassamis) while Phrygian has Hittite influence (e.g kuliya- kulia).


I'm very short of time, but i will gladly offer my notes on this awesome language. It is one of my dreams to visit ancient Phrygia in Anatolia.

[Flipper]

Btw, I agree with the Phrygian origin of Dionysus. Zemelos is an epithet of Dionysus and you will also find him as Zeus Zemelos in Phrygian.

http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/texte/...n/phryg282.htm

ΑΔΑΚΕΤ ΔΕΩΣ ΖΕΜΕΛΩΣ ΤΙ ΤΕΤΙΚΜΕΝΟΣ
to put the curse of Zeus Zemelos / To be cursed by Zeus Zemelos (I'm unsure about the use of "ti", but the tetikmenos instead of tetikmeno must refer to "be cursed")

[Flipper]

Andrew, were is this image from?

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Flipper

It was about time!
Phrygian is officially my favourite foreign language.
I'm very short of time, but i will gladly offer my notes on this awesome language. It is one of my dreams to visit ancient Phrygia in Anatolia.

You're welcome Flipper ...it's indeed a remarkable language !!! Everything you wanna add it's welcomed my friend :

What shocked me personally is the phrygian inscription :

"Midai Lavagtaei Vanaktei"

perfectly intelligible to a Greek : the dative , the words :

"Μίδᾳ ΛαFαγέτι Fάνακτι" (Midai Lawageti Wanakti)

LOL !!!

This closeness explains why did the Macedonians were so influenced by the Phrygians ....Phrygians had the advanced culture during their stay in Macedonia and Northern Greek and Phrygian around 1000 BC must of have been much more intelligible.

Linguists agree that the linguistic influence velocity depends mostly by:

1) cultural gradient . High culture influences the lower one.
2) intellegibility degree of the two languages. When two languages have much common lexicon then the sellection of a word becomes almost arbitrary.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Flipper

Andrew, were is this image from?

I made it yesterday !!!! ....Is it good ????

I was breaking my head to find a simple graphem representing both "time" and "space" in the linguistic dispersion !!!

[Mygdonia]

Good work Andrew, very interesting.