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This is an interesting topic, since according what you offer here is the etymology of Macedonian, or non-Greek names in general, through Greek transcriptions, as recorded in Greek sources. In other words if I use the Macedonian transcription for Greece, Грчка (Grchka), its etymology would mean "to grip, to contract" to my Macedonian mind. However, one should keep in mind that the original form would have a different meaning for the people who produced the names...Thus if we assume that the Macedonian names recorded in Greek existed in slightly different form in the original language of the Macedonians, then we can make an attempt to detect their etymology based on a syllabic system as derived from the Demotic text of the Rosetta stone and then compare it to the syllabic lemmas still present in modern Macedonian, using the Slavic character of the ancient Macedonian language as a working hypothesis. Of course this is just the closes guess based on what we have as linguistic material in the modern Macedonian language, which is of the Indo-European Slavic Family, and the written sources, which I assume come from other languages rather than the Macedonian, and could be interpretations into Hellenic of the true names of the Macedonians, as that of Cheops to Khufu. 1. Dionysus - original form: Deo-E-Nis, would mean Our God to the Macedonians: Dea, Deo, Teo, Tea, all these represent a word for God or Goddess, E Ona, means She is , in both ancient and modern Macedonian. Therefore Dea-E-Ona would mean She-Is-Goddess to Olympia. It matches the Diane in Dodona, and Deio in the Derveni Papyrus. Thus Deo-E-Nis would be God-Is-Ours, to the ancient Macedonians, Nis meaning Ours, in modern Macedonian represented as Na [nash]. 2. Macedonia - Land of the Great Mother Make-Dea-Ona-E or Make-Dea-E-Ona. "Makje" in ancient Macedonian corresponds to Makea (Majka) in modern Macedonian, meaning (foster) mother, as the Macedonians saw their Land, as a Great Mother to all the children from the Land of the Mother Earth. Make-Dea-Ona-E or Makedonae, meaning She is the Mother Goddess. Thus Macedonia is the Land of the Mother Goddess, the Land of Mother Earth. 3. Zeus - Dzeus - Dze - Dezeve - meaning 'Light' to the ancient Macedonians, or God of Light The Kalash believe in the Creator God Dezau, which is very close to Dze as recorded in the Rosetta stone Demotic, which in modern Macedonian had survived in the word 'dze' used in kids talk for light, or visible, something you can see (on the Greek side this would turn into Zeus). Similarly, De-Ze-Ve, which later fused into Dze, as recorded in the Demotic of the Rosetta stone, would mean the God who holds the thunder. De, meaning Deo, or God, Ze meaning to take, to hold, as in modern Macedonian zema (to take), Ve, meaning lightning, as in modern Macedonian veda (lightning), and at the same time meaning to see, visible, as in vedi (to see in old-Slavic), or vidi (to see, in modern Macedonian). De-Ze-Ve actually is the God who Holds the Light(-ning), or the Thunder God, known as Zeus to the Greeks. 4. Caesar - Tsar - meaning 'You are the Land' - King's title for the ancient Macedonians To the Macedonians this would be Tsar, which later survived in Latin as Caesar, as well as in Byzantine Slavic, Tsar. If we use the syllabic reading of the Macedonian roots T-S-Ar, it turns out that the Emperors title would mean You-Are-With-the Land. Ti/tebe te, meaning You/to you, in modern Macedonian, S, implying so (preposition meaning with), as in Sonce [sontse] (sun), it would mean S-On-T-Se, With-Him-You-Are, On being used as the pronoun for God, meaning He/Him, and Ar/Er meaning Earth, Land, therefore, T-S-Ar would mean literally You Are with the Land Tsar, ruler of all the land! Or if we assume that S stands for Si, second person singular of to be in modern Macedonian, than Ti-Si-Ar would mean You are the Land. The title Caesar would give similar outcome: Ka could mean land, or snake, the force of the Earth in Macedonia, while in ancient Rome sometimes a classical Latin word was kept alongside a Vulgar Latin word. In Vulgar Latin, classical caput, "head", yielded to testa (originally "pot") in some forms of western Romance, including French and Italian. But Italian, French and Catalan kept the Latin word under the form capo, chef, and cap which retained many metaphorical meanings of "head", including boss Southern Italian dialects likewise preserve capo as the normal word for head The copula (that is, the verb signifying "to be") of Classical Latin was esse. This evolved to essere in Vulgar Latin by attaching the common infinitive suffix -re to the classical infinitive. Again just a mere speculation Thus, Caesar, would be Capo-Essere, or the Head to the Vulgar Latins, Ca-Esse-Ar - the Head of the Land. Since the Caesarians considered themselves to be descendants of Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, the term Ar might have survived in their nickname, or cognomen, with the same meaning as it has been preserved in Macedonian language. Later, the original cognomen of the Caesar patrician family, from the gens Julia, must have been Latinized to meet the requirements of the Latin language. 5. Helion - Ilion - Ilija - Elijah - meaning "He is the Light" to the Macedonians: The name Elijah corresponds to Ilija or Ilion in Macedonian, and Helion in Greek. Helion represented the visible light, while Apollo the spiritual light. This can be clearly seen if we apply the syllabic system of the Macedonian Slavic root morphemes. Thus, IL-I-ON means Light-is-He, IL being the root morpheme for light, as in the word SVETIL (meaning to shine in modern Macedonian), which comprises of two morphemes: SVET-IL (SVET meaning world, and IL meaning light, thus the Light to the World); I is a conjunction meaning and in modern Macedonian, while ON means HE in Macedonian, thus IL-I-ON would mean He is the Light. 6. APOLLO - meaning "The One of the Town from the Heavenly Light" A-Po-L-O means The One of the Town from the Heavenly Light. A has a titular meaning denoting the One, as singled out from the rest. Po was the root morpheme for town, out of which later the morpheme pol derived, as in Constantinopol. Apo is used today signifying relative or brother in some dialects of modern Macedonian. L[∂] (as in English learn), denotes a term for Sunray, as in Lač, pronounced latch [latʃ] in English, meaning Sunray in modern Macedonian, or Lča [l∂tʃa], as it was recorded in the Demotic of the Rosetta stone. While O, denotes the vowel syllable for sky, as in V-O-Da, meaning water, in modern Macedonian, or Gift-from-the-Sky in ancient Macedonian, from V meaning in, O denoting sky, and Da meaning Gift, as in dava, dar (Macedonian, to give, gift), or dare (Italian, to give). Thus, A-Po-L-O would mean the One from the Town of the Sky Ray, which intereprets as the One from the Town of the Heavenly Light, thus corresponding to the function of Apollo as the god of sun and light. 7. Following the syllabic system of the ancient and modern Macedonian, an interesting etymology rises with the names of ARTEMIS and SELENE. Artemis or Artemida, the twin sister of Apollo, would consist of the following root morphemes: Ar-Te-Mi-Da. Ar means land; Te means you, to you; Mi means me, to me, the same had survived in modern Macedonian as the short form of the indirect object pronoun mene mi (to me), or it can be seen as we, to us, as in most of the Slavic languages, where mi signifies us, while in modern Macedonian has changed into nie, to make a distinction from the morpheme used for the first person singular, while in Church Slavic it was still used in its original meaning, and has survived in the western dialects of modern Macedonian as mie, meaning us; and Da means a gift. Thus, Ar-Te-Mi-Da could mean You are my/our Gift to the Earth, or simply a Gift to the Earth. Selena, would be composed of the following morphemes: Se-Le-Na, Se - meaning all, the same morpheme is used in modern Macedonian; Le was a form to denote a title, something like Sir/Madam today, which has survived in some dialects of modern Macedonian in a neutral form, such as Goce le Vojvoda (meaning Goce Thou Duke), or mome le ubavo (Thou beautiful girl), the same morpheme can be found in the Macedonian word lee, meaning to flow, thus Le would mean Thou or flow; while Na means a preposition in modern Macedonian meaning on or above. Thus, Se-Le-Na could mean All-Flows-On, or On All Flows, either that or All-Thou-On, Thou on All, meaning You Above All. The term had later accepted the prefix Vo in Church Slavic, denoting the preposition in, thus in modern Macedonian there is the term Vselena, denoting the Universe (V-O-Se-Le-Na, In the Sky Above All). The moon indeed flows in the sky above all. 8. DEMETER - meaning the Gift from the Mother Earth. It can be attested in the root morpheme of the name Demeter, or DA-MA-TE, as recorded in the Linear B. The 'DA' element in each of their names is seemingly connected to a Proto-Indo-European root relating to distribution of land and honors (compare Latin dare "to give"). (Wikipedia) Therefore Da would mean to give or gift, Ma would mean mother, and Te would imply you, the same form in modern Macedonian. Again this is all an improvised explanation. However, it makes sense to say that DA-MA-TE-R, or later Demeter, meant Mothers Gift. If we ad eR meaning Earth, then we get Gift from the Mother to the Earth (for Da-Ma-Te-eR), or Mother Earths Gift. 9. Bela - Pella - Apostol - Postol - the Capital of the Earth Bela, the name of the capital city for the Macedonians. Pellas popular name was Bela, and it was a name used for Capitals or important centers across the Slavic world, thus Beograd, or Belgorod. The Aegean region of Macedonia is known as Belomorska (White Sea) Macedonia. The title of the city was eR-Po-Tol meaning Earth-Town-Seat. Po means town, which later changed into poli, polis. Tol means a seat, which has survived as Stol in modern Macedonian, meaning chair. Therefore, eR-Po-Tol would mean the Chair Town of the Earth, or in other words, the Capital of the World. In Alexandrian Greek it was transcribed as Ptolemaiyo, Ptol meaning Town, and Mayio was the Earth Goddess for the Greeks, also known as Rea, Gaea, Deio. Er-Po-Tol later turned into Postol, the Slavic name of Pella, Po meaning town, Stol meaning chair. A-Postol would imply the One from the Chair Town, since A was added to personal nouns to signify distinction, as separate from the rest. Thus Apostle Paul received his nick name meaning The One from the Capital. This is what Postol sounds like to the Macedonian ear even today, the Capital. However, since the morpheme Po had lost it is original meaning due to northern influences (the term for town is grad in modern Macedonian), the suffix Pre, meaning above, or elevated, or high was added to the Stol root morpheme to get Prestol in Macedonian, or throne in English. The logical equation I want to draw here is the following: Bela (popular name of the Macedonian Capital) Pella (Greek) - erPoTol (the title of the town, meaning The Chair Town of Earth), or later Postol which gave birth to Apostle, meaning - The One from the Chair, which evolved into Prestol in modern Macedonian, meaning - Throne. 10. In this light, the name of Alexander can be rendered to A-Le-Ka-San-Dar. A meaning the one; Le meaning thou, used as a title; Ka meaning both earth and snake, San meaning dream; and Dar- meaning gift. Thus, A-Le-Ka-San-Dar means the One Gift from the Earth Dream, or the Gift from the Snake Dream. This totally coincides with the allegorical story of Olympias dream. Olympia has seen the Snake or the Force of the Earth rise and mix with her husbands semen to conceive a Son, of both God and Man. She knew the child was special; it was a gift both to her but also to the world as the oracle foresaw. In modern Macedonian the term for Gift is Dar, the same in ancient Macedonian I would assume, since the god Daron was the ancient Macedonian god of healing. Its etymology is known, and it means he that gives health. This means that the name of this god contains the Macedonian noun dar (a gift). The names Darun, Dare, Dara and others are present in todays Macedonian onomasticon. The Dream of the Snake is an allegory that developed in time to explain the meaning of the name A-le-ka-san-dar. The first mention of this name is in Linear B, a-le-ka-san-da-ra. It means that the name meaning Gift from the Earth (snake) Dream, signified a divine intervention to the conception of a child, one of the core mysteries in Dionysus Creed. It has been a practice for women in Magna Mater cult, even in Rome, who could not have children to go to a Holy Rock or Cave and sleep over the night. It was believed that the Spirit of the Earth would rise and conceive a child with the woman, which will be half-god, half-man. 11. FILIP - PHILIP - meaning The One who Drinks of the Light... Philip, or F-IL-I-PI as rendered in syllabic morphemes, indicates that the name meant The One who Drinks of the Light. F/V (voiceless/voiced) meaning in, IL meaning light, I conjunction meaning and, PI from the verb PIE (in modern Macedonian), meaning to drink. Thus, F-IL-I-PI would mean the One who Drinks from the Light. Now in this regard all we need to do is compare the Macedonian and the Greek etymologies in the examples with Alexander and Philip to know which one is offering a more precise explanation. According to the Greek etymology, Alexander means "protector of men", while according to the syllabic system of the Macedonian etymology the name of Alexander means "The Gift from the Snake Dream" (just as the allegory with Olympia suggests). It seems that the Greek etymology is more recent one, similar to the etymology we gave above for Greece in Macedonian transcription. In other words, it is out of the blue! The Greek etymology for Philip is "Friends of Horses", while in Macedonian it means 'The One who drinks from the Light'. Now if we assume that Philip was known as the "drunkard" by his enemies, could this have been a nickname that those who did not like him invented to mock his true name: The One Who Drinks Light? In this light, knowing that the Greek etymology is a recent one conducted on a mixture of forms of the Greek language, since Katharevousa has damaged the natural flow of the evolution of Greek and has brought ancient terms in modern use which deter from their original meaning, we can assume how (in)correct the rest of the explanations given here could be... I would also like to comment on this: - MAKEDONIA Ancient Greek (MACEDONIA Latinized) From Latin Macedonius "Macedonian," from Greek Makedones, literarily "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos "long, tall," makros "long, large." Archeological evidence point at the fact that the ancient Macedonian were short or medium-height, not TALL at ALL!!! Alexander was rather short you know - The name Macedon is derived from the tribe of the "Makednoi" ("ma(e)kos" = length). It has the same root, which means 'long', 'high' or 'tall' as in the Greek adjective 'makednos' or the noun 'mekos.' The name Macedon therefore derives from 'Makedones' which means "tall people" or "highlanders". Tall people not for sure! Highlanders maybe to the Greeks, however to the Macedonians the name Makjedonija means the Motherland, and accordingly Macedonians would be the Children of the Great Mother Earth... Better logic you must agree! - The Greek word 'makednos' is first mentioned in Homer's Odyssey (Od. H106), and later by Herodotus, who called 'Makednon eunos' the various Doric tribes among which he included the Macedonians (Herodotus I.56, VIII.43): ...during the reign of Deucalion, Phthiotis was the country in which the Hellenes dwelt, but under Dorus, the son of Hellen, they moved to the tract at the base of Ossa and Olympus, which is called Histiaeotis; forced to retire from that region by the Cadmeians, they settled, under the name of Macedni, in the chain of Pindus. Now this is a very wrong interpretation of Herodotus account. They did not settle under the name of Macedni but settled in the territory called Macedonia. This is the correct translation: Extract from Herodotus: The Histories "When he heard these verses, Croesus was pleased with them above all, for he thought that a mule would never be king of the Medes instead of a man, and therefore that he and his posterity would never lose his empire. Then he sought very carefully to discover who the mightiest of the Greeks were, whom he should make his friends. [2] He found by inquiry that the chief peoples were the Lacedaemonians among those of DORIC, and the Athenians among those of IONIC stock. These races, IONIAN and DORIAN, were the foremost in ancient time, the first a Pelasgian and the SECOND a HELLENIC people. The Pelasgian race has never yet left its home; the HELLENIC has WANDERED often and FAR. [3] For in the days of king Deucalion1 IT (the Dorian) INHABITED the land of Phthia, THEN the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen; DRIVEN from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, IT SETTLED about Pindus IN THE TERRITORY CALLED MACEDONIAN; FROM THERE again IT MIGRATED to Dryopia, and AT LAST CAME from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where IT TOOK the name of Dorian.2" So the Dorian were a pack of invaders who wandered often and FAR: from Phthia, to Histiaean land, then driven away by the Cadmeans it settled in Macedonia FOR A SHORT WHILE, to be chased away to Dropya and at last settle down in the Peloponnese and become DORIAN!!! They merely settled in Macedonia for a while! How much more are you going to misinterpret ancient authors? MAKJEDONIJA or MAKJE-DEA-ONA-E meaning She is the Mother Goddess compared to Land of the Tall People, tell me which makes sense to you? Last edited by akritas; 09-20-2008 at 03:17 AM. |
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LMAO I don't believe Ive just spent so much of my time reading this rubbish. Do these people believe in the words credibility and integrity? I think not. I am not even going to waste my time.
__________________ When countries had to register their names it was natural that the British wanted Britain as the name of their country, however they had to face the French veto because Brittany is a geographical area of France and that why they got the name, United Kingdom. I think as an argument this example is enough! |
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What's even funnier they use Anglicized names to come up with their conclusions. Hilarious jokers.
__________________ When countries had to register their names it was natural that the British wanted Britain as the name of their country, however they had to face the French veto because Brittany is a geographical area of France and that why they got the name, United Kingdom. I think as an argument this example is enough! |
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Sardzoski welcome to the macedoniaontheweb. These interpretations that you present us are all over the net and post it from Slavmacedonian sources. They have two commons. -Ignoring elementary principles of the continuous development in the languages, like grammatical, phonetical and morpho-syntactic peculiarities of analytic type. -Bypassing the epigraphical findings. These findings proove the development of the language. Script and grammar are these that proove the develpment of the language. |
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Who is the retarded that has post all that crap ???
__________________ Μακεδῶν ἐξ Αἰγιδίου ...οἶά τε φύλλα μακεδνῆς αἰγείροιο "...like the leaves of a very high poplar" (Odyssey VII,106) κακοὶ μάρτυρες ἀνθρώποισιν ὀφθαλμοὶ καὶ ὦτα βαρβάρους ψυχὰς ἐχόντων "Bad testimonies are the eyes and the ears for persons having barbarian souls" ΗΡΑΚΛΕΙΤΟΣ |
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Interesting how this B.S also completely ignores the FACT that it is known that the Names Dionysus and Zeus have been in existence since the Mycenaean period. They also ignore the fact that the name Alexandros, Philipos and many others have direct references to their existence well before the time of Alexander I and much earlier than The Great and his father. Interesting how they always break a single word into 3+ words in order to make a name fit. HMMM seems to me that if they would just break open a dictionary of Ancient Greek they would quickly realize that everything they are trying to prove already preexisted in Ancient Greece. This is nothing more than pure propaganda coming from their extremist, a propaganda which is not being, whatsoever, serious in the linguistic academic world!
__________________ Local Trachinian men made the comment "that when the Persians finally got around to firing off their arrows there would be so many of them that they would block out the sun." The Spartan, Dienekes said "What our friend from Trachis says is good news, for if the Medes hide the sun then we shall be fighting in the shade." |
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What a tragedy this is...It reminds me of the Albanian illussions about their language.
__________________ Akritas & Flipper b2b |
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First of all, thank you for the interest in my research. I am so delighted to see some of the faces from All History forums. I think the following information was sort of lacking to give credence to the list given above: The syllabic analysis of the Macedonian lemmas, or root morphemes is not an invention, it is a discovery. If I created such a logic myself there would not have been a match say between the allegory with Olympia's dream and the name of Alexander as recorded in Linear B. I used the syllabic form of the name as recorded in Linear B: A-LE-KA-SAN-DARA... and I analyzed the syllables, since Linear B is a syllabic script as is the Demotic, and many other civilizational scripts of antiquity. This make me think that if the Macedonians used the Demotic and it was a syllabic script then each syllable should carry a basic meaning... Then I analyzed the Demotic text and I was trying to identify the roots of the words, which made me realize that most of them have survived in modern Macedonian... I took up this approach as a wild guess, and it turned out that SAN indeed means DREAM, DAR - GIFT, KA - SNAKE, thus I got the three basic elements of the allegorical account of Olympia's dream of the snake... Of course I considered the fact that the name existed much before Olympia had the dream, and I assumed that the story must have been written later on to give explanation of the meaning of Alexander's name, and it somehow became treated as a real event in later literature... Philip revealed the root morpheme TO DRINK... He was known as a 'drunkard', again I assumed that the Greek sources must have used this nickname as an insult for the Macedonian King whom they detested so much... There are coincidences that emerged which made me think of the possibility that the Macedonian syllabic system has been preserved in the modern Macedonian words... Not all though... Further research needs to be done... However, it is a hint to a possibility! Macedonian language is considered as less synthetic than the Greek... Meaning it has less morphemes-per-word ration than Greek... Greek words have been created by using the method of derivation which often changes the root morpheme, while the Macedonian words have been created by infliction which does not change the root: "Macedonian grammar is markedly analytic (1) in comparison with other Slavic languages, having lost the common Slavic case system. The Macedonian language shows some special and, in some cases, unique characteristics due to its central position in the Balkans." (Wikipedia) (1) In morphological typology (in linguistics), an isolating language (also analytic language) is any language in which words are composed of a single morpheme. This is in contrast to a synthetic language which can have words composed of multiple morphemes. (Wikipedia) "Like most Indo-European languages, Greek is highly inflected. Greek grammar has come down through the ages fairly intact, though with some simplifications. For example, Modern Greek features two numbers: singular and plural. The dual number of Ancient times was abandoned at a very early stage. The instrumental case of Mycenaean Greek disappeared in the Archaic period, and the dative-locative of Ancient Greek disappeared in the late Hellenistic. Four cases, nominative, genitive, accusative and vocative, remain in Modern Greek. The three ancient gender noun categories (masculine, feminine and neuter) never fell out of use, while adjectives agree in gender, number, and case with their respective nouns, as do their articles. Greek verbs have synthetic(2) inflectional forms." (Wikipedia) (2) A synthetic language, in linguistic typology, is a language with a high morpheme-per-word ratio. What I find interesting here, and this is a spontaneous insight, is that Greek language changes coincide with the political developments in Greece, thus: The abandoning of the dual number of Ancient Greek and the disappearance of instrumental case of Mycenaean Greek in the Archaic period, coincides with the Greek Dark Ages which caused writing to cease, Linear B to be abandoned, rules to change... and a new form of Greek to be introduced... The "dative-locative of Ancient Greek disappeared in the late Hellenistic", coincides with the introduction of the Alexandrian dialect which was based on the Attic dialect however used many lexical forms from other languages. This coincides with the account given by Arrian that the Greek language, meaning the Koine, was NEW both for the conquered and the conquerors... (The conquered being all the rest besides the Macedonians.) |
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http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none The surfix -andros* in the name ALEXANDROS (Alexander is the latinized form of Alexandros) is also in other ancient Greek names like Lysandros,Evandros,Terpandros,Kassandros,Anaximand ros e.t.c. So what is its meaning in all these names?Will you again etymologize it from...dar=gift and san=dream?The only dream i see is your nationalistic dreams to usurp a history that doesn't belong you in order to heal your inferiority complex.Why don't you try to prove that Turkish or Albanian names derive from your language?You can't acquire certificates of nobility usurping Turkish or Albanian history eh?If you want to find your real roots try to explain why you use a Mongolian name (Solun) for Thessaloniki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solun_(Inner_Mongolia) * the surfix -andros is the genitive of aner=man. Singular Nominative o aner Genitive tou andros Dative to andri Accusative ton andra Vocative - aner Plural Nominative oi andres Genitive ton andron Dative tois andrasin Accusative tous andras Vocative - andres
__________________ Αυτός τε γαρ Έλλην ειμί γένος τωρχαίον. I am myself a Greek by ancient descend. Alexander I of Macedonia,in Herodotos' book Kalliopi,IX,45. You can fool all of the people some of the time You can fool some of the people all of the time But you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln, 1864 Last edited by kostas68; 09-21-2008 at 06:03 PM. |
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