Ancient Macedonian language

[BigBlackBeast]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Guys ..I just love the word "ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ" instead of attic "ΠΑΡΑΚΑΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ" ... d oyou know why ???

1) contraction of "ΠΑΡΑ-" in "ΠΑΡ-"
2) doubling of dental "T"

Now ...take the OBVIUSLY greek word "ΠΕΡΙΔΙΚΑΙΟΣ" meaning "famusly just"
and apply :
1) contraction of ΠΕΡΙ- to ΠΕΡ-
2) doubling of dental "k" to "kk"
3) add North Western greek ending in "-as"
.................................................. ........
= ΠΕΡΔΙΚΚΑΣ !!!! The name of the first Macedonian King , and common Macedonian name later !!!

Bravo Andriko ... you're fast becoming one of my favourites in these forums.

I'm not so sure, however, that 'k' is a dental. If I'm not mistaken I think it is a (plosive) velar. The doubling of the 'character' consonant, though, does appear to have some significance - at least on the basis of these two words ..!?

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by BigBlackBeast

Bravo Andriko ... you're fast becoming one of my favourites in these forums.

I'm not so sure, however, that 'k' is a dental. If I'm not mistaken I think it is a (plosive) velar. The doubling of the 'character' consonant, though, does appear to have some significance - at least on the basis of these two words ..!?

Well BBB you're wright ... I'm not even sure about "k" being a dental ...if anyone can help us on that ....

Yet that it is no problem ..since in other classes of consonants we have doublings ...take for example the "liquid" consonants "ρ" and "λ" ...In some dialects we have καλός and in other καλλός , Ύλλος instead of Ύλος , Αχιλλεύς and Αχιλεύς etc ...

[Andrew]

Here I would like to express an idea on the Macedonian language/dialect of Greek.

First of all some "brain-storming" for who is new to the subject. The attempt of classification of the Macedonian language has two basic sides. Those who retain it a dialect of greek and those who don't. About this issue it is fair to say that the vast majority of modern scholars consideres it a Dialect of Greek.
Among the pro-Greek scholars historicaly there were two basic opinions : Macedonian belonging tothe Aeolic branch of Greek and Macedonian belonging to the North Western branch of Greek.

Modern pro-Aeolists : Hoffman , Fick , Hammond in his first opinion (70s) etc.
Ancient pro-Aeolists : Hellanikus (410 BC) and Hesiod (750 BC)

Modern pro-Northwesternists : Hammond after 1985 , Mason , Bengtson etc.
Ancient pro-Northwesternists : Herodotus in (I,56).

Althought after the discovery of the Pella curse tablet most scholars see the Macedonian as North Western greek dialect , one can't overlook it's Aeolisms who "tricked" some ancient and modern scholars to see it as an Aeolic dialect of greek.

Why did the Macedonian dialect tricked them ??

To answer this question one must first clarify some terms : undifferanciated dialect , differenciated daughter dialects and hybrid dialects.


[url=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=180&i=divmixaq1.png][IMG]

The Undifferenciated dialect is the common precursor of two different dialects.The last are seeing as "daughters" of this common precursor who diverged due to isolation and different interactions. If in a second moment the daughter languages remix then we have a "hybrid" dialect. Now as you can see by the scheme the hybrid dialect looks similar to the undifferanciate parent , but their great differance is obvius :
In relation to the differenciated dialects the precursor comes earlier and the hybrid comes after.

After these definitions we can turn in our point.We've been talking about the ambiguus nature of the Macedonian dialect that maintaines both "dorisms" and "Aeolisms". The same thing can be told about the Boetian dialect.

At that point the latest linguistic news on the greek dialects consider the Aeolic and North Western greek dialects as differantiatd daughters of a common "continental" greek dialect. It is speculated that the two diverged around 1300-1200 BC.

As we explained above this "continental" precursor of the Aeolic and North Western dialects of greek must have the characteristics of both ... that is Aeolisms and Dorisms combined . Strangely that is the condition of the Macedonian and Boetian dialects.

Having that as a background I would like to propose my theory on the Macedonian dialect.

-About 1900 BC we have the arrival of proto-Greek in Southern Albania and Northern Epeirus.
- The first branch to diverge and descent into greece was the proto-Mycenaean meanwhile the proto-greek bulk behind diverged in two basic forms: "Coastal proto-Ionian" in the Albanian coasts (Ioanian Sea & Ionian Gulf) and "proto-continental" in the continental parts of that zone.
-A second wave was the arrival of the proto-continental Greek to the Upper nad Middle valeys of Haliakmon river. That territory can be diveded in three parts : Makeda ("Heighland") in Orestis where the Macedonians dwelt , Boion (Tymfaea and south Elymia) where the Boetians dwelt and finaly East Elymia - West Pieria where the Magnetes dwelt. These 3 spoke an undifferenciated dialect of proto-continental Greek.
-In the next step ,from the proto-continental bulk that they left stemmed the proto-Aeolic leaving behind what will differanciate into proto-NorthWestern Greek. During their descent to Thessaly the proto-Aeolians separated the previus proto-continentals and send the Macedonians with the Magnetes to Pieria and the Boetians to Thessaly.
-In the same time the Phrygian press from the north causes the descent of the NW Greek and it's diffusion to West Macdonia , Epeirus and Southern Greece. In the meanwhile the Thracian invasion in Pieria "pushed" the Magnetes southward in straight contact with the Aeolians and the Arrival of the NW Thessalians to Thessaly drove the Boetians to Boetia and caused the Aeolian migration to Asia minor.
In the meanwhile the Ionians by sea reached western peloponnesus and by there Argolid ,Attica and Eubea and where already there when the NW Greeks "pushed" and so even them migrated to Asia minor.

In that model we have Macedonians, Boetians and Magnetes originaly speaking an undifferanciated proto-continental language. First splited the Boetians when the Aeolians pushed them , meanwhile Macedonians and Magnets finished in the Pierian mountains and continue to talk their proto-continental idiom. Then the Thracians drove away the Magnetes. Now the three finished isolated in different positions and surrounded by different people.

-The Magnetes finished on having straight relations with the Aeolians so sooner or later their dialect differentiated in Aeolian loosing it's "Dorisms".
- The Boetians finished surrounded by Aeolians in the North, NW Greeks in West and Ionians in the South ..so their dialect maintained it's undifferanciated nature since they communicated with all the dialects and couldn't "forget" neither the "Aeolisms" nor the "Dorisms".

- Finaly , the Macedonians ...left alone in the north ...were in straight contact only with the North Western Greeks of Elymia and that caused a differentiation of their dialect in the Northwestern sense , but always maintained some of the Aeolisms of it's previus undifferentiated proto-continental form. Also with the inevitable contact with Phrygians , Thracians and Illyrians they also obtained a few "non greek" elements in their speech.

The original undiferantiated and "archaic" form of the Macedonian and Boetian dialects is indicated by a quotation from the book that ChicagoGeorge showed me : "M.L. West , Indo-European myth & poerty" where he states in page 15:

"...the Boetian Pindar , who has the greatest amount of interest to offer. Calvert Watkins has called him "in many ways the most Indo-European of Greek poets".

Also another find from a book that chicagogeorge introduced is :




So at this point we must ask ourselves the co-presence of Dorisms and Aeolisms are indicators of "post-daughter" hybridism or pre-daughter undifferenciation ?? For me the fact that Pindar's Greek is both "hybrid" and "the most Indo-European" indicates that it's the second case , that is the "hybrid" Greek dialects ar not a mix of dialects , but earlier daughters of the common proto-continental Greek that stemmed out before the separation in Noth Western and Aeolic.

Interestingly , by putting the Macedonian dialect in an undifferanciated place between the North-Western and the Aeolic then we can understand why it seemed "barbarian" to the Athenians . Thoukydides names the North Western Greek dialect of the Aetolians as "unintelligible" and Plato in Protagoras calls the Aeolian dialect a "barbarian dialect". Hre are the quotations:

Thoukydides (III,94) :

«τὸ γὰρ ἔθνος μέγα μὲν εἶναι τὸ τῶν Αἰτωλῶν καὶ μάχιμον, οἰκοῦν δὲ κατὰ κώμας ἀτειχίστους, καὶ ταύτας διὰ πολλοῦ, καὶ σκευῇ ψιλῇ χρώμενον οὐ χαλεπὸν ἀπέφαινον, πρὶν ξυμβοηθῆσαι, καταστραφῆναι. ἐπιχειρεῖν δ᾿ ἐκέλευον πρῶτον μὲν Ἀποδωτοῖς, ἔπειτα δὲ Ὀφιονεῦσι καὶ μετὰ τούτους Εὐρυτᾶσιν, ὅπερ μέγιστον μέρος ἐστὶ τῶν Αἰτωλῶν, ἀγνωστότατοι δὲ γλῶσσαν καὶ ὠμοφάγοι εἰσίν, ὡς λέγονται» (ΘΟΥΚΥΔΙΔΗΣ Γ,94)

The Aetolian tribe ...dwelling unwalled villages ...with an unintelligible language and eaters of raw meat.

Plato , Protagoras (341c) :

Prodicus labelled the Aeolic dialect as barbarian, while referring to Pittacus of Mytilene :

“ He didn't know to distinguish the words correctly, being from Lesbos, and having been raised with a barbarian dialect ”

The Aeolic dialect might, in the time of Socrates and Plato, sound so strange to the Athenians, as to be termed, from an exclusive pride in the Attic literary style, barbaros.

So if a pure North Western dialect as the Aetolian is "unintelligible" and the Aeolian a "barbarian" one ..go figure what did the Macedonian sounded like when it had both "Aeolisms" and "Dorisms" in it's undifferanciated form.

[chicagogeorge]

[Andrew]

Although after the 80s the linguists tend to consider the Ancient Macedonian Dialect as a very conservative form of North-Western Greek , for the major part of the 20th century (1900-1970) they had their "doubts". The reason for that was the fact that the Macedonians used the voiced deaspirated [ β[b],δ[d],γ[g] ] instead of the "standard" Greek voiceless aspirated [ φ[ph],θ[th],χ[kh] ]. Now it is widely accepted that the proto-indoeuropean (PIE) language had the voiced aspirarated consonants [*bh,*gh,*dh] that were maintained in the Sanskrit language. To understand these "transitions" i give the following diagramm :


[url=http://g.imageshack.us/img54/phoneticvectoriy0.png/1/][IMG]

So their point was that meanwhile proto-Greek had made the transition (0)->(3) , the Macedonians had made the transition (0)->(1) and so it was a non greek language. For example Macedonians used forms like Βίλα,Βέρροια,Βερενίκα,Δώραξ,Ξανδικά,Λαομάγα instead of "standard" Greek Φίλα,Φέρροια,Φερενίκα,Θώραξ,Ξανθικά,Λαομάχα.

The basic differences are :

i) Deaspiration and Voicing of φ[ph] to β[b] : φ[ph]->π[p]->β[b]
ii) Deaspiration and Voicing of θ[th] το δ[d] : θ[th]->τ[t]->δ[d]

Now first of all lets make clear that in ancient times there wasn't any "standard" Greek language , but a mosaic of different forms of Greek , who sometimes were loosely linked to each other. For example , linguists have measured the "correlation coefficients" of the varius Greek dialects with the Attic-Ionic and the results gave numbers like:
Boetian (0,32) , Laconian (0,34) , Korinthean (0,42) etc.

Returning to our theme ..I'm going to provide some examples of the other Greek dialects containing "non standard" Greek forms like the ones of the ancient Macedonian dialect ,that is examples of DEASPIRATIONS and VOICINGS of "standard Greek" forms.

I) DEASPIRATIONS:
*Cretan doric τίρος instead of standard θέρος ("summer") (θ>τ)
*Laconian doric αμπέσσαι instead of standard αμφίεσαι ("you aredressing") (φ>π)
*Lesbian Aeolic ἐπιάλτης instead of standard ἐφιάλτης (nightmare) (φ>π)
*Thessalian Aeolian ἀσπάλεια instead of standard ἀσφάλεια ("safety") (φ>π)
*Pamphylian greek ἀντρώποισι instead of standard ἀνθρώποισι (dative of ἄνθρωπος, "human") (θ>τ)
*The greek word for "aspect/sight" is ὀψις [opsis] and sinse the s-forms are considered later derivations of t-forms , the oldest form is ὄπτις [optis] , hence the panhellenic word ὀπτική ("optic"). Now , meanwhile the Atheneans used to say ὀφθαλμός [ophthalmos] for "eye", the northwestern greeks used the word ὄπτιλλος [optillos]. Comparing the two themes [ophth-] & [opt-] we have an important allophonic situation with the NW Greeks using a doubly deaspirated form (φ>π & θ>τ). Considering also the panhellenic range of the word ὀπτική (optike) and it's archaic t-form , it's becoming evident that the doubly deaspirated form must be older and more widespread.
*Another important allophony between aspirated and deaspirated forms is seeing in the name of the godess Persephone. The Ionians used more the doubly aspirated form Φερσεφόνη [Phersephone] , meanwhile the other Greeks used more the "standard" form Περσεφόνα [Persephone] (φ>π). It's an important allophony in which the aspirated version seems to be a later develpoment , since the name etymologically means "killed by Perseus" (Paula Philippson has suggested it after considering that Persephone and Medussa -the later killed by Perseus- were originally one deity that later was bisected in a "good vergin" and an "evil monster").

II) VOICINGS:
* Plutarch informs us that the Locrians used β[b] instead of π[p] , for instance βικρός instead of πικρός (bitter)
* Homeric δάπος , δοῦπος instead of standard τόπος,τύπος (τ>δ)
* Elean Doric βαίδειος/Fαίδειος instead of hέτοιμος ("ready") (-ετ- > -αιδ-)
* The personal names Ατταγινός attested in Boetia instead of "standard" Αττακινός (κ>γ) and Δρεβέλαος attested in Perrhaebia instead of the expected Τρεφέλαος (τ>δ & φ>β)

III) VOICINGS & DEASPIRATIONS (the Macedonian case) :
* φ>β : Laconian doric βώνημα (φώνημα) , βάγαρον (φῶγω) ,βερνόμεθα (φέρνη) , βάλιος (φάλιος) ,Attic Κεβλήπυρις (κεφαλήπυρις) , Elean βρα (φρατήρ) and the Perrhaebian personal name Δρεβέλαος (Τρεφέλαος)
*θ>δ : Epeirotan mountain Πίνδος instead of "standard" greek Πίνθος (compare with the toponymic ending -νθος like in Κόρινθος, Ζάκυνθος etc), Laconian αἴδωσσα instead of standard αἴθουσα (chamber) , Pamphylian city Ἄσπενδος instead of standard Ἄσπενθος and the Perrhaebian personal names Παντορδάνας and Σταδμείας instead of "standard" Παντορθάνας and Σταθμείας.
*χ>γ : The Perrhaebian personal name Φυλομάγα instead of the expected Φυλομάχα.

All the above examples show that the Greek dialects do present an allophonic general situation between aspirated & deaspirated forms , between voiced and unvoiced ones or between unvoiced aspirated forms and voiced deaspirated ones. Further more , since the only sources for the ancient Macedonian language are the personal names , the toponyms and -mostly- the glossary samples by Christian Era lexigographers like Hesychius one must consider another thing suggested by G. Horrocks in his book : "Greek: history of the language and it's speakers". "We should not , however , discount the possibility that what is being described in such sources as "Macedonian" is in fact the language of Paeonian , Illyrian or Epirote subjects of the Macedonian king". That is , the Christian Era Macedonia was an enlarged region -wider than the original Macedonian homeland and the Old Macedonian Kingdom- and included hellenized Paeonian , Thracian and Illyrian tribes. So except from the natural influence that these tribes had to the Macedonians due to their contiguity , one must consider that the glossary sample is overinflated with non-greek terms that the Macedonians themselves probably never used , but the lexicographers labeled them as "macedonian" simply because they were attested in the Macedonia of their era. In support of this possibility we have two interesting evidence. First , the Pella Curse Tablet , probably the only existing text of the Macedonian dialect (O. Masson) , is safely recognized as a greek dialect different from the Attic-Koine one (more precisely , it's a northwestern greek dialect) , but has none of the "Macedonian unorthodoxies" mentioned above. Secondly , the toponym Λείβηθρον [Leibethron] in the early Macedonian homeland (mountainous Pieria) has a perfectly greek phonology with an unvoiced and aspirated form (θ,[th]) , instead of the "macedonian-expected" voiced, deaspirated Λείβηδρον , [Leibedron] (δ,[d]).

So if we could "purify" the Macedonian tongue from the really occured non-greek phonological borrowings (C. Brixhe's model of phonological osmosis suggest a strong influence specificaly by the Phrygians because they had strict contiguity with the Macedonians and there was a substantial culture gradient to permit influence) and from the eventual non-greek terms (Paeonian,Thracian,Illyrian) that the later lexicographers erroneously labeled as "Macedonian" , then the resultant idiom is nothing more than a northwestern greek dialect akine to Doric with the usual allophony that we've seen in all the greek dialects.

Interestingly , another proof of the allophonical situation in archaic Greek between aspirated and deaspirated forms and between voiced and unvoiced ones comes form the Mycenaean Linear B texts.The Mycenaean Linear B had no separate features for the series [β,π,φ] and [γ,κ,χ] , but [δ] was separated from [τ,θ]. This probably means one thing only : The Mycenaeans have started to pronounce the voiceless aspirated phonems [φ,θ,χ] AFTER the invention of Linear B (around 1650 BC) , meanwhile they already had separated the phonem [δ] from [τ] BEFORE it's invention.

Now after the works of Porzig & Risch in the 50s it is widely accepted that the Mycenaean wasn't the mother of all the later greek dialects , but only of the "southern greek group" (Attic-Ionic and Arkadocypriot). The proof of that is the fact that the proto-Greek form (as a direct daughter of proto-Indoeuropean *-nti , -*-kwa) used the "older" forms δίδωτι,Fίκατι,Ποτίδας,ὄποκα instead of the "later" δίδωσι,εἴκοσι,Ποσειδῶν,ὀπότε. The mycenaean Greek has already made the transition *-ti>-si. Interestingly, the "older" forms have been maintained in the "northern Greek group" (Doric,Northwestern Greek, Aeolic) and can mean only that the precursor of this group in the second millenium BC was a greek variant different form the Mycenaean one. That "northern Greek precursor" was a variant very similar (if not equal) to the Macedonian dialect. Two more proofs that back that are the following ones:

1) Macedonian personal name Ἰκκότας instead of standard Greek Ἰππότας meaning "knight,horseman". The decipherment of the Mycenaean Linear B gave us the word for horse as i-qo [ikwos]. That means that the typical trasformation of the labiovelar kw in pt and later pp (ἵππος) is post-mycenaean (after 1200 BC). The macedonians turned the labiovelar -κw- in double velar -kk- ,but they weren't the only ones to do so. In the doric speaking cities of Taras and Epidaurus some inscriptions gave us the word ἴκκος instead of standard ἵππος. This "not standard" trasformation of a labiovelar "kw" in "k" instead of "pt,pp,p or t "is not unique.The Thessalians of Pelasgiotis used to say for "who" «κίς» instead of standard «τίς» (proto-Greek *kwis) , meanwhile the macedonian toponym Πιερία , attested in Macedonia,Boetia and the Peloponnese in west Thessaly we find in the city Κιέριον. Again the labiovelar turns into velar instead of the expected pt,p or t. The etymology of Πιερία and Κιέριον are perfectly Greek since Hammond translates Pieria as "well chosen land" , like the greek word πῖαρ for "top milk"/"best part of the milk" and the homeric phrase πιείρα ἀρούρα (fat/fertile land). The common proto-Greek ancestor of Πιερία,Πῖαρ and Κιέριον is the labiovelar form "kwier" a form very similar to the english "well" and the Italian "bello" = "pretty". The same thing happens with the greek forms of the word "five". The proto-Greek form had a labiovelar (penkwe). Only the Aeolians turned -kw- in -p- (πένπε->πέμπε) , the other Greeks turned -kw- in -t- (πέντε ,also in modern Greek) , yet for the word "fifth" ALL the Greeks turned -kw- in -pt- (πέμπτος , also in modern Greek). This is a perfect example of the proto-Greek labiovelar -kw- trasformation in -pt- and from there in -p- or -t- . The last example comes from the word "and". Mycenaean form was qe [kwe] , most historical Greeks used the form τε (kw->t) ,yet from late antiquity till today survives mainly the form και (kw->k).

2) The Athenean comedian Strattis (late 5th century BC) in his comedy titled "Macedonians" or "Pausanians" presents a Macedonian speaking with an Athenean in a very uncouth greek dialect who uses ὕμμες Ὠττικοί κικλήσκετε instead of ὐμείς Ἀττικοί κεκλήσκετε ("you Atheneans call"). The form ὔμμες is also attested in Homer and Sappho and most linguists are accepting it as proto-Greek form , the extremely rarely "ω instead α at the beginning" is also attested in an Acarnanian inscription (ὠγαθός instead of ἀγαθός , "Aeotolas , Acarnanas , Macedonas , eiusdem linguae homines" , Livy 31.29), meanwhile the turn of [e] in [i] in an initial syllable is interestingly also attested in the northern variants of Modern Greek (νιρό instead of νερό , "water").

[chicagogeorge]

Nice find Andrew!

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

Nice find Andrew!

Here is Claude Brixhe's model of "phonological osmosis" from the Book "history of Greek : from the beginnings to late antiquity" (edited by A.F. Christidis)


[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img146/brixhesphonosmvi6.

I't's clear that Brixhe considers the Macedonian tongue as a northwestern dialect of Greek phonologicaly influenced by the Phrygian phonology due to the long time contiguity between Macedonians (Pieria) and the Phrygians (Central Plain).

[chicagogeorge]

[chicagogeorge]

[Andrew]

Here is a quote of G. Horrocks' : "Greek: history of the language and it's speakers" :

We should not , however , discount the possibility that what is being described in such sources [late lexikographers , like Hesykhius] as "Macedonian" is in fact the language of Paeonian , Illyrian or Epirote subjects of the Macedonian king.

It is a highly probable suggestion that the Macedonian "glosses" that the Christian Era lexicographers present are erroneously inflated with non greek features , because of the confusion between real Macedonians and non-greek subjects of the Macedonian kings.