Ancient Macedonian language

[Ptolemy]

[Ptolemy]

[Ptolemy]

[Ptolemy]

[Ptolemy]

[Ptolemy]

[Ptolemy]

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

The following is a post from vasiliOs (great way to spell it) on Greek Soccer. I have invited him to join us and I will post as I think he would not object.






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http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macanclan.html


QUOTE
The problem of the nature and origin of the Macedonian language is still disputed by modern scholars, but does not seem to have been raised among the ancients.

We have a rare adverb "makedovisti" (important passages in Plutarch, Alex.51 and Eum.14), but the meaning of this form is ambiguous. The adverb cannot tell us whether Plutarch had in mind a language different from Greek (cf. "foivikisti", 'in Phoenician'), or a dialect (cf. "megaristi", 'in Megarian'), or a way of speaking (cf. "attikisti").

We have some 'Macedonian' glosses, particularly in Hesychius' lexicon, but they are mostly disputed and some were corrupted in the transmission. Thus "abroutes", 'eyebrows' probably must be read as "abrouFes" (with 't' which renders a digamma). If so, it is a Greek dialect; yet others (e.g. A.Meillet) see the dental as authentic and think that the word belongs to an Indo-European language different from Greek.

After more than a century we recognise among linguists two schools of thought.

* Those who reject the Greek affiliation of Macedonian prefer to treat it as an Indo-European language of the Balkans, located geographically and linguistically between Illyrian in the west and Thracian in the east. Some, like G.Bonfante (1987), look towards Illyrian; others, like I.I.Russu (1938), towards "Thraco-Phrygian" (at the cost, sometimes, of unwarranted segmentations such as that of "Ale3avdros" into "+ale-" and "+3avd").
* Those who favour a purely Greek nature of Macedonian as a northern Greek dialect are numerous and include early scholars like A.Fick (1874) and O.Hoffmann (1906). The Greek scholars, like G.Hatzidakis (1897, etc.) and above all J.Kalleris (1964 and 1976), have turned this assumption into a real dogma, with at times nationalistic overtones. This should not prevent us, however, from inclining towards this view.

For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. "Ptolemaios" is attested as early as Homer, "Ale3avdros" occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- ('Alexandra'), "Laagos", then "Lagos", matches the Cyprian 'Lawagos', etc.

The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like "Arridaios" or "Sabattaras", may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece).

Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like "Berevika" for "Ferevika", etc.).

Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first 'Macedonian' text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb "opoka" which is not Thessalian.

We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.



O.Masson,

"Oxford Classical Dictionary," 3rd ed. (1996), pp.905,906



James L. O'Neil's (of the University of Sydney) presentation at the 2005 Conference of the Australasian Society for Classical Studies, entitled "Doric Forms in Macedonian Inscriptions" (abstract):


QUOTE
"A fourth‐century BC curse tablet from Pella shows word forms which are clearly Doric, but a different form of Doric from any of the west Greek dialects of areas adjoining Macedon. Three other, very brief, fourth century inscriptions are also indubitably Doric. These show that a Doric dialect was spoken in Macedon, as we would expect from the West Greek forms of Greek names found in Macedon. And yet later Macedonian inscriptions are in Koine avoiding both Doric forms and the Macedonian voicing of consonants. The native Macedonian dialect had become unsuitable for written documents."


Brutally harsh for the skops, especially coming from the University of Sydney of all places, heh.

This post has been edited by vasili0s: Today, 12:17 PM


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Macedonia : Eternal HELLENIC homeland !

http://makedonia.cc.ece.ntua.gr

Θρύλε για πάρτη σου, Θρύλε μαζί σου...


Tha is the end of vasiliOs' post on GS. THanks to Greeksoccer.com and vasiliOs.

[Spartan]

From Plutarchs "Lives" Vol II pg. 161

When Alexander went to Siwa to consult the Oracle/Temple of Ammon!

"Others say that the priest, desirous as a piece of courtesy to address him
IN GREEK, 'O Paidion,' by a slip in pronunciation ended with the s instead of the n, and said 'O Paidios,' which mistake Alexander was well enough pleased with, and it went for current that the oracle called him so."

Interesting why the priest would address him in Greek if the Macedonian mother-tongue was NOT GREEK!??

[akritas]

Sample glossary

Below there are ancient words that belong in the ancient macedonian language.
Warning:
You might need Greek fonts in order to read the Greek Macedonian words.

• άβαγνα ábagna 'roses' (Hes. Attic ρόδα; perhaps Doric αβός abós 'young, luxuriant' + αγνός hagnós 'pure, chaste, unsullied')
• αβαρύ abarý 'oregano' (Hes. ορίγανον orÃ*ganon, perhaps Attic prefix α a 'not' + βαρύ barý 'heavy')
• αβρούτες or αβρούφες abroûtes or abroûwes 'eyebrows' (Hes. Attic όφρυς ophrûs acc. pl., οφρύες ophrúes nom., PIE *bhru-)
• άγημα ágēma, 'vanguard, guards' (Hes. Attic άγημα ágēma, PIE *ag-)
• αγκαλίς agkalÃ*s 'weight, burden, load' or 'sickle' (Hes. Attic άχθος ákhthos or δρέπανον drépanon, LSJ Attic αγκαλίς agkalÃ*s 'bundle', or in pl. αγκάλαι agkálai 'arms' (body parts), άγκαλος ágkalos 'armful, bundle', αγκάλη agkálē 'the bent arm' or 'anything closely enfolding', as the arms of the sea, PIE *ank 'to bend')
• αδέ adē 'clear sky' or 'the upper air' (Hes. ουρανός ouranós 'sky', LSJ and Pokorny Attic αιθήρ aithēr 'ether, the upper, purer air', hence 'clear sky, heaven')
• άδις ádis 'hearth' (Hes. εσχάρα eskhára, LSJ Attic αίθος aîthos 'fire, burning heat')
• άδραια ádraia 'fine weather, open sky' (Hes. Attic αιθρία aithrÃ*a, PIE *aidh-)
• ακρουνοί akrounoÃ* 'boundary stones' nom. pl. (Hes. όροι hóroi, LSJ Attic ακρος ákros 'at the end or extremity', from ακή akē 'point, edge', PIE *ak 'summit, point' or 'sharp')
• αλίη alÃ*ē 'manure'
• άλιζα áliza (also alixa) 'alder' (Hes. Attic λεύκη leúkē 'poplar', perhaps Pokorny Attic ελάτη elátē 'fir, spruce', PIE *ol-, *el-)
• αμαλή amalē 'gentle' fem. (LSJ αμαλή, Attic αμαλή, απαλή hamalē, hapalē)
• άξος áxos 'wood' (Hes. Attic ὓλη húlē)
• άργελλα árgella 'bathing hut' (LSJ Greek of Magna Graecia and Pokorny Cimmerian ἄργιλλα árgilla 'subterranean dwelling', Old Indian argala-Η, argalā 'latch, bolt', PIE *areg-, hence Romanian argea (pl. argele), 'wooden construction', Albanian ragal 'cabin')
• αργιόπους argiópous 'eagle' (LSJ Attic αργίπους argÃ*pous 'swift- or white-footed', PIE *hrg'i-pods < PIE *arg + PIE *ped)
• αρκόν arkón 'leisure, idleness' (LSJ Attic ἀργός argós 'lazy, idle' nom. sing., αργόν acc.)
• άσπιλος áspilos 'torrent' (Hes. χείμαρρος kheÃ*marrhos, Attic άσπιλος áspilos 'without stain, spotless, pure')
• βάσκιοι báskioi 'fasces' (Hes. Attic δεσμοι φρυγάνων desmoì phrūgánōn, Pokorny Macedonian βασκευταί baskeutaÃ*, Attic φασκίδες phaskÃ*des, perhaps Attic φάσκωλος pháskōlos 'leather sack', PIE *bhasko-)
• γοτάν gotán 'pig' acc. sing. (PIE *gwou- 'cattle', Hes. Attic ὗν hûn 'swine')
• γράβιον grábion 'torch' (PIE *grabh-, 'hornbeam', Umbrian Grabovius an oak-god, etymologically linked by LSJ and Pokorny to Attic κράβ(β)ατος kráb(b)atos 'couch, bed', Latin grabātus - which LSJ derives from Macedonian - hence modern Greek κρεβάτι kreváti 'bed')
• δανός danós 'death', δανῶν danōn 'murderer' (Hes. Attic thánatos θάνατος 'death', from root θαν- than-)
• δάρυλλος dárullos 'oak' (Hes. Attic δρῦς drûs, PIE *doru-)
• έταιροι etaîroi 'comrades' nom. pl. (Attic έταιροι hetaîroi, PIE *swe-t-aro < suffixed form of *swe)
• ίλαξ Ã*lax 'the holm-oak, evergreen or scarlet oak' (Hes. Attic πρίνος prînos, Latin ilex)
• καλαρρυγαί kalarrhugaÃ* 'ditches, trenches' (Hes. τάφροι - attributed to Amerias) -LSJ: Ambraciot word, acc. to Sch.Gen.Iliad 21.259 (in form kalarua).
• κάναδοι kánadoi 'jaws' nom. pl. (Attic γνάθοι gnáthoi, PIE *genu, 'jaw')
• κάραβος kárabos 'gate, door' (Hes. Attic karabos 'meat roasted over coals'; Attic karabos 'stag-beetle'; 'crayfish'; 'light ship'; hence Modern Greek karavi)
• karabos 'the worms in dry wood' (Attic karabos, 'stag-beetle, horned beetle; crayfish')
• karabos 'a sea creature' (Attic karabos, 'a crayfish, a prickly crustacean; stag-beetle')
• κίκερροι kÃ*[k]erroi 'pale ones (?)' (Hes. Attic ὦχροι ōkhroi, PIE *kιiker- 'pea')
• κλινότροχον klinótrokhon, according to Theophrastus a sort of maple of Stageira, Pokorny Attic γλεῖνον gleînon), LSJ: γλίνος or γλείνος, Cretan maple, Acer creticum, Thphr.HP3.3.1, 3.11.2.
• κόμβους kómbous 'molars' acc. pl. (Attic γομφίους gomphÃ*ous, dim. of γόμφος gómphos 'a large, wedge-shaped bolt or nail; any bond or fastening', PIE *gombh-)
• λακεδάμα lakedáma 'salt water with garlic', Hes.; according to v. Blumenthal (1930), -ama corresponds to Attic ἁλμυρός halmurós 'salty'; laked- is cognate to English leek, possibly related is Λακεδαίμων Laked-aÃ*mōn, the name of the Spartans.
• λείβηθρον leÃ*bēthron 'stream' (Hes. Attic λεβιθρον rheîthron, also λιβάδιον libádion, 'a small stream', dim. of λιβάς libás; PIE *lei, 'to flow')
• Πύδνα Púdna, a toponym (Pokorny Attic πυθμήν puthmēn 'bottom, sole, base of a vessel', PIE *bhudhnā)
• σάρισσα sárissa (also σάρισα sarisa), a long pike used by the Macedonian phalanx (Theophrastus, Polybius; etymology unknown - v. Blumenthal (1930) reconstructs *skwrvi-entia- to a root for 'cut', but this is speculative; perhaps Attic σαίρω saÃ*rō 'to show the teeth, grin like a dog', esp. in scorn or malice, also 'to sweep clean or away')