Ancient/ non-modern historians on Ancient Macedonia and Macedonians

[Ptolemy]

As for the people of Cius, it was not I who made war on them, but when Prusias did so I helped him to exterminate them, and all through your fault. 8For on many occasions when I and the other Greeks sent embassies to you begging you to remove from your statutes the law empowering you to get booty from booty, you replied that you would rather remove Aetolia from Aetolia than that law

Polyvius "Histories" 18, 4

[Ptolemy]

[3]One of the latter was Thais. She too had had too much to drink, when she claimed that, if Alexander gave the order to burn the Persian palace, he would earn the deepest gratitude among all the Greeks. This was what the people whose cities the Persians had destroyed were expecting, she said. [4] As the drunken whore gave her opinion on a matter of extreme importance, one or two who were themselves the worse for drink agreed with her. The king, too, was enthusiastic rather than acquiescent. ‘Why do we not avenge Greece, then, and put the city to the torch?’ he asked. [5] They were all flushed with wine, and they got up drunk, to burn a city which they had spared while under arms. Alexander took the lead, setting fire to the palace, to be followed by his drinking companions, his attendants and the courtesans. Large sections of the palace had been made of cedar, so they quickly took flame and spread the conflagration over a large area. [6] The army, encamped not far from the city, caught sight of the fire. Thinking it was accidental, came running in a body to help. [7] But when they reached the palace portico, they saw themselves their king still piling on torch-wood, so they dropped the water they had brought and began throwing dry wood into the blaze themselves.
[8] Such was the end of the palace that had ruled all the East.

[Curtius 5.7.3]

The most celebrated of these was Thais, an Athenian, at that time the mistress of Ptolemy who later became the ruler of Egypt. As the drinking went on, Thais delivered a speech which was intended partly as a graceful compliment to Alexander and partly to amuse him. What she said was typical of the spirit of Athens, but hardly in keeping with her own situation. She declared that all the hardships she had endured in wandering about Asia had been amply repaid on that day, when she found herself reveling luxuriously in the splendid palace of the Persians, but that it would be an even sweeter pleasure to end the party by going out and setting fire to the palace of Xerxes, who had laid Athens in ashes. She wanted to put a torch to the building herself in full view of Alexander, so that posterity should know that the women who followed Alexander had taken a more terrible revenge for the wrongs of Greece than all the famous commanders of earlier times by land or sea. Her speech was greeted with wild applause and the king’s companions excitedly urged him on until at last he allowed himself to be persuaded, leaped to his feet, and with a garland on his head and a torch in his hand led the way. The other revelers followed, shouting and dancing, and surrounded the palace, and those of the Macedonians who had heard what was afoot delightedly ran up bringing torches with them. They did this because they hoped that the act of burning and destroying the palace signified that Alexander’s thoughts were turning towards home, and that he was not planning to settle among the barbarians. According to a number of historians it was in this way that the palace was burned down, that is on impulse, but there are others who maintain that it was an act of deliberate policy. However this may be, it is agreed that Alexander quickly repented and gave orders for the fire to be put out.

Plutarch: Alexander 38

[Ptolemy]

Alexander held games in honour of his victories. He performed costly sacrifices to the gods and entertained his friends bountifully. While they were feasting and the drinking was far advanced, as they began to be drunken a madness took possession of the minds of the intoxicated guests. At this point one of the women present, Thais by name and Attic by origin, said that for Alexander it would be the finest of all is feats in Asia if he joined them in a triumphal procession, set fire to the palaces, and permitted women’s hands in a minute to extinguish the famed accomplishments of the Persians. This was said to men who were still young and giddy with wine, and so, as would be expected, someone shouted out to form the comus and to light torches, and urged all to take vengeance for the destruction of the Greek temples.

Diodorus XVII.72.1

[Ptolemy]

..the Achaean magistrates refused the latter request on the ground that they were not empowered to receive additional members without consulting Philip and the rest of the allies. For the alliance was still in force which Antigonus had concluded during the Cleomenic war between the Achaeans, Epirots, Phocians, Macedonians, Boeotians, Acarnanians,º and Thessalians. They, however, agreed to march out to their assistance on condition that the envoys deposited in Sparta their own sons as hostages, to ensure that the Messenians should not come to terms with the Aetolians without the consent of the Achaeans.

[Polybius IV, 9, 4]

Its well known Antigonos III established the Hellenic League (symmachy) against Cleomenes and Sparta. Of course Macedonians as Greeks were included.

[Ptolemy]

Alexander came by the statue of his father and spoke loud: `Youths of the Pellaians and of the Macedonians and of the Hellenic Amphictiony and of the Lakedaimonians and of the Corinthians... and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your fellow-soldiers and entrust yourselves to me, so that we can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage, for AS Hellenes WE should not be slaves to barbarians.'

<`Pseudo-Kallisthenes' 1.15.1-4>

[Ptolemy]

"Antiochos Epiphanes... became king in the 137th year of the kingdom of the HELLENES."

<Maccabees 1 1.11>

[Ptolemy]

How highly should we honour the Macedonians, who for the greater
part of their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake of the security of Greece? For who is not aware that Greece would have constantly stood in the greater danger, had we not been fenced by the Macedonians and the honourable ambition of their kings?

The Histories of Polybius, IX, 35, 2 (Loeb, W.R. Paton).

And next the kinship of all Greeks in blood and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of life

Herodotus, History VIII, 144, 2 (Loeb, A.D. Godley).

[Spirit]

Strabon, Geography

"[6] Next comes the mouth of the Ambracian Gulf. Although the
mouth of this gulf is but slightly more than four stadia wide, the
circumference is as much as three hundred stadia; and it has
good harbors everywhere. That part of the country which is on
the right as one sails in is inhabited by the Greek Acarnanians."

And that goes together with this:

MACEDONIA - An Ancient GREEK Land


In the year 200 B.C. the Macedonian King Philip V sent
Macedonian ambassadors to the council of the Aetolian
League, the 'Panaetolian Congress', to try to prevent the
Romans from inducing the Aetolians to change their allegiance
from Philip V to the Romans in their 2nd Macedonian War.
At the council was also the Roman representative
sent by the consul, and also a deputation from the
Athenians who were the Romans' allies at this time.
A hearing was first given to the Macedonians.
The Macedonian delegates said:

'..........the same reasons which led them (the Aetolians)
to make peace with Philip should lead them to keep that
peace, once it had been established'.
'Or do you prefer' said one of the the delegates, '.......
................ . It is sheer madness to expect anything will
remain in the same state if aliens, more widely separated
from you by language, customs and laws than by distance
over sea and land, obtain control over these parts.
Philip's rule ............. . Allow the foreign legions to settle
down in these parts and take the yoke on your shoulders;
then it will be too late and all in vain to call on Philip as
your ally, when you have the Roman for your lord. The
Aetolians, the Acarnanians, the Macedonians, are divided
or united by unimportant causes that arise from time
to time; with aliens, with barbarians, all Greeks are and
will be for ever at war; for they are enemies not for
reasons which change from day to day, but by nature -
and nature is eternal. But now my speech will end .........'


Livy (Titus Livius), XXXI.28 - XXXI.29
from LIVY. ROME AND THE MEDITERRANEAN
Translated by HENRY BETTENSON
PENGUIN CLASSICS
For fair use only


And, back to STRABON!

"Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece, yet now, since I am
following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I
have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and
to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends
as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a
little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Nebrus River,
and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole
of Macedonia lies.
Fr. 10

"But of all these tribes the Argeadae,108 as they are called,
established themselves as masters"

"The Peneius forms the boundary between Lower Macedonia,
or that part of Macedonia which is close to the sea, and Thessaly
and Magnesia; the Haliacmon forms the boundary of
Upper Macedonia; and the Haliacmon also, together with the
Erigon and the Axius and another set of rivers, form the boundary
of the Epeirotes and the Paeonians.
Fr. 12a

"For if, according to the Geographer, Macedonia stretches from the
Thessalian Pelion and Peneius towards the interior as far as Paeonia
and the Epeirote tribes, and if the Greeks had at Troy an allied force
from Paeonia, it is difficult to conceive that an allied force came to
the Trojans from the aforesaid more distant part of Paeonia."
Fr. 13

Spirit

[Spirit]

Curtius 6.9.35
"Praeter Macedones plerique adsunt, quos facilius quae dicam percepturos
arbitror, si eadem lingua fuero usus qua tu egisti; non ob aliud, credo,
quam ut oratio tua intelligi posset a pluribus".

And the translation

"Besides the Macedonians there are many present who, I think, will
more easily understand what I shall say if I use the same language which
you have employed, for no other reason, I suppose, than in order that you
speech might be understood by the greater number."

The crucial words are "more easily".

That speech clearly shows that Macedonian was actually understandable
by other Greeks but "not so easily". Now, just how would anyone try to
explain that all the Greek warriors could understand with some difficuly
the Macedonian language if it was not a dialect of Greek.

Also, as an aside, that the sentence also means that ALL the
Macedonians understood the common Greek of their time at that
early time period as considered against later Hellenistic times so
_their_ language had to be a dialect of Greek.

Spirit

[Spirit]

De Fortuna Alexandri by Plutarch Loeb Classical Library, 1936:

"But after Philip's end, when Alexander was eager to cross over and, already absorbed in his hopes and preparations, was hastening to gain a hold upon Asia, Fortune, seizing upon him, blocked his way, turned him about, dragged him back, and surrounded him with countless distractions and delays. First she threw into the utmost commotion the barbarian elements among his neighbours, and contrived wars with the Illyrians and Triballians. By these wars he was drawn from his Asiatic projects as far away as the portion of Scythia that lies along the Danube; when, by sundry manoeuvres, he had subjugated all this territory with much danger and great struggles, he was again eager and in haste for the crossing. Again, however, Fortune stirred up Thebes against him, and thrust in his pathway a war with Greeks, and the dread necessity of punishing, by means of slaughter and fire and sword, men that were his kith and kin, a necessity which had a most unpleasant ending."


And:

De Fortuna Alexandri by Plutarch Loeb Classical Library, 1936:

"But Virtue was by his side and in him she engendered daring, and in his companions strength and zeal. For men like Limnaeus and Ptolemy and Leonnatus and all those who had surmounted the wall or had broken through it took their stand before him and were a bulwark of Virtue, exposing their bodies in the face of the foe and even their lives for the goodwill and love they bore their king. Surely it is not due to Fortune that the companions of good kings risk their lives and willingly die for them; but this they do through a passion for Virtue, even as bees, as if under the spell of love-charms, approach and closely surround their sovereign. What spectator, then, who might without danger to himself have been present at that scene, would not exclaim that he was witnessing the mighty contest of Fortune and Virtue; that through Fortune the foreign host was prevailing beyond its deserts, but through Virtue the Greeks were holding out beyond their ability? And if the enemy gains the upper hand, this will be the work of Fortune or of some jealous deity or of divine retribution; but if the Greeks prevail, it will be Virtue and daring, friendship and fidelity, that will win the guerdon of victory? These were, in fact, the only support that Alexander had with him at this time, since Fortune had put a barrier between him and the rest of his forces and equipment, fleets, horse, and camp. Finally, the Macedonians routed the barbarians, and, when they had fallen, pulled down their city on their heads."

And:

http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/e...s/Antony*.html

For fair use only

" On the following day Antony feasted her in his turn, and was ambitious to surpass her splendour and elegance, but in both regards he was left behind, and vanquished in these very points, and was first to rail at the meagreness and rusticity of his own arrangements. Cleopatra observed in the jests of Antony much of the soldier and the common man, and adopted this manner also towards him, without restraint now, and boldly. For her beauty, as we are told, was in itself not altogether incomparable, nor such as to strike those who saw her; but converse with her had an irresistible charm,
and her presence, combined with the persuasiveness of her discourse and the character which was somehow diffused about her behaviour towards others, had something stimulating about it. There was sweetness also in the tones of her voice; and her tongue, like an instrument of many strings, she could readily turn to whatever language she pleased, so that in her interviews with Barbarians she very seldom had need of an interpreter, but made her replies to most of them herself and unassisted, whether they were Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabians, Syrians, Medes or Parthians. Nay, it is said that she knew the speech of many other peoples also, although the kings of Egypt before her had not even made an effort to learn the native language, and some actually gave up their Macedonian dialect."

Not to forget:

For fair use only

http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/e...rtius/10*.html


"Caput X
Perdicca perducto in urbem exercitu consilium principum virorum habuit, in quo imperium ita dividi placuit, ut rex quidem summam eius obtineret, satrapes Ptolemaeus Aegypti esset et Africae gentium, quae in dicione erant. Laomedonti Syria cum Phoenice data est, Philotae Cilicia destinata, Lyciam cum Pamphylia et maiore Phrygia obtinere iussus Antigonus, in Cariam Cassander, Menander in Lydiam missi. Phrygiam minorem Hellesponto
adiunctam Leonnati provinciam esse iusserunt. Cappadocia Eumeni cum Paphlagonia cessit: praeceptum est, ut regionem eam usque ad Trapezunta defenderet et bellum cum Ariarathe gereret: solus hic detrectabat imperium. Pithon Mediam, Lysimachus Thraciam adpositasque Thraciae Ponticas gentes obtinere iussi. Qui Indiae quique Bactris et Sogdianis ceterique aut Oceani aut rubri maris accolis praeerant, quibus quisque finibus habuisset imperium, obtinerent decretum est: Perdicca ut cum rege esset copiisque praeesset, quae regem sequebantur. Credidere quidam testamento Alexandri distributas esse provincias, sed famam eius rei, quamquam ab auctoribus tradita est, vanam fuisse conperimus. Et quidem suas quisque opes divisis imperii partibus prudenter ipsi fundaverant, si umquam adversus inmodicas cupiditates terminus staret: quippe paulo ante regis ministri specie imperii alieni procurandi singuli ingentia invaserant regna sublatis certaminum causis, cum et omnes eiusdem gentis essent et a ceteris sui quisque imperii regione discreti. Sed difficile erat eo contentos esse, quod obtulerat occasio: quippe sordent prima quaeque, cum maiora sperantur. Itaque omnibus exoptatius videbatur augere regna, quam fuisset accipere."

Translation:

"Cappadocia and Paphlagonia fell to Eumenes........

.........and any pretext for conflict was removed since they all belonged to the same race and were geographically separated from each other by the boundaries of their several jurisdictions."


As we all know, Eumenes was a Greek.... but NOT a Macedonian Greek.

So, with his final words Q. Curtius Rufus states that without question the Macedonians were Greeks.





from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!