The Sultan and His Subjects - Richard Davey, 1897

[Ptolemy]

The account of Richard Davey, originally published in 1897 contains an earnest description of the Moslem and Christian nationalities under the Ottoman Empire. As the author makes it explicitely there is nothing like “Macedonian ethnicity” but instead Macedonia at his time, contains a mixture of ethnicities, mainly Greek and Bulgarian. Furthemore the account of Richard Davey mentions with stats the attrocities of Bulgarian brigands against the Greek population of Macedonia.

[Makedonomaxos2008]

Great article Ptolemy!

This not only proves (yet one more time) that there is no macedonian ethnicity, but also puts an end to the 'Greeks were a minority' myth

I'd like to read it all, do you have it or know where i could look for it?

thanks

[Grace]

new to this:
is it your (Greek) position that any Macedonian that was left from 2000+ years, forgot it all and at best identifies as Greek now? Or, they were always Greek?

[edessa]

Originally Posted by Grace

new to this:
is it your (Greek) position that any Macedonian that was left from 2000+ years, forgot it all and at best identifies as Greek now? Or, they were always Greek?

Please explain what you mean by 'any macedonian'? As you can see from the above there is no evidence of an ethnic macedonian living in macedonia in the 19th century.
Macedonians, in the true sense of the word, are greek. The rest are just geographical determinations but belong to other ethnicities

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by Grace

new to this:
is it your (Greek) position that any Macedonian that was left from 2000+ years, forgot it all and at best identifies as Greek now? Or, they were always Greek?

We were always Greek,don't believe what the Scopians claim.They haven't any relation to ancient Macedonia,they are pure Bulgarians who adopted as their new ethnic name the name of an ancient Greek tribe due to several geopolitical reasons.As for the Greekness of ancient Macedonians read here:
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...-plutarch.html
Read also this:
http://websfor.org/alexander/arrian/indica2.asp
It's from Arrian's Indica,book 2,chapter XXXIII :
<Some of them advanced some distance inland, breaking away from the main force, some in pursuit of this, and some of that. There a man appeared to them, wearing a Greek cloak, and dressed otherwise in the Greek fashion, and speaking Greek also. Those who first sighted him said that they burst into tears, so strange did it seem after all these miseries to see a Greek, and to hear Greek spoken. They asked whence he came, who he was; and he said that he had become separated from Alexander's camp, and that the camp, and Alexander himself, were not very far distant. Shouting aloud and clapping their hands they brought this man to Nearchus; and he told Nearchus everything, and that the camp and the King himself were distant five days' journey from the coast.>
...and answer:
If Macedonians weren't Greeks,why did they burst into tears when they heard after long time someone speaking Greek?
And here you can read how were called the ancestors of nowadays <Makedontsi> from FYROM:
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ia-1854-a.html
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ulgarians.html

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Grace

new to this:
is it your (Greek) position that any Macedonian that was left from 2000+ years, forgot it all and at best identifies as Greek now? Or, they were always Greek?

Grace if you're refering to the original Greekness of the ancient Macedonians ..the vast majority of modern scholars considered it a fact.

Even the minority that doesn't think it as that concludes that the Macedonians were fully hellenized in 300 BC ..and from that point and on they were simple Greeks among other Greeks.

So it is interesting to separate:

Historical Macedonia and it's inhabitants (descendants of the ancient)

Modern (post-Ottoman) Geographical Macedonia and it's multiethnic population : Greek , Bulgarian , Serbian , Albanian , Pomak , Roma ,Turk etc.

So I'm asking you since in all the previus cases ancient Macedonians were Greeks from 300 BC and on ...in 1850 AD in which of the above modern "Ethnic" groups you should put them ??

About the FYROMers ...how can Bulgarians inhabiting over ancient Paeonia consider themselves Macedonians ??

[Grace]

thanks guys. I have to draw the line on the language, and not because it's favorable to Albanians but it makes sense. Anyone can claim an identity, but if people preserved a special language on their own, then there is something to it.

So, Albanians and Greeks divide the Balkans. For the rest, Russia has plenty of empty land to fill

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Grace

thanks guys. I have to draw the line on the language, and not because it's favorable to Albanians but it makes sense. Anyone can claim an identity, but if people preserved a special language on their own, then there is something to it.

So, Albanians and Greeks divide the Balkans. For the rest, Russia has plenty of empty land to fill

Well maybe Ukraine. I think that's where the South Slavs originate.