Northern Epirus" Between Propaganda And Myth

[Draco]

Originally Posted by Grace

Regarding pressures to assimilate. start here. I know you may call it propaganda, but probably everything similar is to you:

"One reason for such a slow movement is the apparent hostility of the Greek state to such ‘revivals’ among Arvanites, Vlachs, and Macedonians, which is indicated by police disruption of festivals (in Macedonia), and harassment of musicians who play and sing songs in minority languages; as well as by the tolerance -by the state and particularly its judiciary- of public calls, printed in the press, to use violence against those musicians; likewise, human and minority rights activists have been the object of similar threats (Stohos, 20/7/1994 and in previous issues, where even the European Union’s Euromosaic project -to report on the status of the linguistic minorities in the EU- was attacked). Such hostile environment makes even the scholars’ work look suspicious: for example, Arvanites have reacted with incredulity and suspicion to scholars’ assertions that their language can be written (Tsitsipis, 1983:296-7; Trudgill, 1983:129; Williams, 1992:88). Moreover, the EBLUL’s first visit to the community was violently attacked by some community members (Williams, 1992:88) as well as in state-sponsored publications (Lazarou et al., 1993:191-193)."

http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/...arvanites.html


>> Furthermore, to think Arvanites who have been in Greece for 5 centuries are going to now supposedly find their "Albanian" roots is nothing short of comical, get that out of your mind.

Many Arbereshe still do. He is one
http://blog.aacl.com/rediscovering-my-albanian-roots/
No one is talking about getting a gun and fighting against or leaving Greece and all of the sudden moving to Albania. Just saying, "hey, I am from there, for good or for bad."

An Arvanite revival does not involve "rediscovering Albanian roots", let's be clear on that. The Arvanite League of Greece's official position is that the "Arvanite language" is a separate language from Albanian. Arvanites today seek no affitities whatsoever with Albania (this is according to the European Commission's Euromosaic project).

[Grace]

Originally Posted by Draco

Here is my assessment of the situation: The meaning of "Greek" has evolved through time. Modern Greeks are based on the Greek-speaking Christians living in the territory in which ancient Greek civilization. Other Christians (like Arvanites and Vlachs) can "join" (i.e. assimilate), but will eventually have to give up their original languages. The church's job seems to be to install a willingness to join in those populations. Greek-speaking Muslims (such as those in the Dodecanese) are not considered Greeks but Turks instead.

I'd imagine the Venezualan's family living in Greece for a number of generations would be required.

The Arvanites did so.

I think the claims to North Epirus are based on the Greek and Albanian-speaking (Arvanite) Christian Greek populations living there.

If no Greek people are living in the relevant area, there can be no claim. Western Asia Minor is an example of this, when there still were Greeks living there, Greek governments sought to annex the region, when they were expelled in the 1920s, the irredentism ceased (except in certain marginal fringe circles).

Good so issue them visas We both know it's about land, and greed, in that department, means only problems.

Regarding the Church: it's the old game, win conversions and assimilate. It's a national church, to benefit the nation. Serbia's church called for Russian arms and volunteers for Kosova.

As laws are passed (EU) and other nations pick up on the economy I think it will backfire as people might resent it. Now they do what they have to, baptize, add a -os to the name or whatever. People also added an -ic in Serbia and converted to Islam under Turks. Survival.

[Draco]

Originally Posted by Grace

As laws are passed (EU) and other nations pick up on the economy I think it will backfire as people might resent it.

There is no one to resent it now. Mark my words, within 30 years the Arvanite language will be extinct. Only elderly people still speak it and their children and grandchildren (who only speak Greek) are more anxious to learn proper English than Albanian. There is no incentive to learn Albanian now, it's considered a worthless accomplishment.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Grace

Many Arbereshe still do. He is one
http://blog.aacl.com/rediscovering-my-albanian-roots/
No one is talking about getting a gun and fighting against or leaving Greece and all of the sudden moving to Albania. Just saying, "hey, I am from there, for good or for bad."

The article in question isn't even by a Hellene of Arvanitic origin (who'd never denounce his Hellenic roots) but by an Albanian of S.Italy hence his reference to Naples, Greci and "the first Albanians from the Balkans settled in Italy"