The Elgin Parthenon Marbles

[Tsontos]

This thread is reserved for any opinions, information, news on the issue of the Elgin marbles which are currently kept in the British museum, much to the displeasure of the Greek people and many non-Greeks who feel strongly about the issue. Just to get a background on the issue, here is wiki's page on the matter:

The Elgin Marbles (IPA: /ˈɛl gən/), sometimes called the Parthenon Marbles, are a large collection of marble sculptures removed from Athens to Britain in 1806 by Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin, ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1799 to 1803. Taking advantage of Ottoman suzerainty over what is now Greece, he obtained a firman for their removal from the Parthenon from the Ottoman Sultan. The sculptures were deposited in the British Museum, London in 1816, and in 1936 were placed into the purpose-built Duveen Gallery.



Description

The Elgin Marbles include some of the statuary from the pediments, the metope panels depicting battles between the Lapiths and the Centaurs, as well as the Parthenon Frieze which decorated the horizontal course set above the interior architrave of the temple. As such, they represent more than half of what now remains of the surviving sculptural decoration of the Parthenon: the Elgin marbles and frieze extend to about 1km when laid out flat, 15 out of 92 metopes; 17 partial figures from the pediments, as well as other pieces of architecture. Elgin's acquisitions also included objects from other buildings on the Athenian Acropolis: the Erechtheion, reduced to ruin during the Greek War of Independence (1821–33); the Propylaia, and the Temple of Athena Nike. Lord Elgin took half of the marbles from the Parthenon and wax casts were produced from the remaining ones.

Interpretation of the frieze

At present, about two-thirds of the frieze is in London and a third remains in Athens. Much of the Athenian material is not on display, and there are fragments in nine other international museums. Considerable debate surrounds the meaning of the frieze but most agree that it depicts the Panathenaic procession that paraded from Eleusis to Athens every four years. The procession on the frieze culminates at the east end of the Parthenon in a depiction of the Greek gods who are seated mainly on stools, either side of temple servants in their midst. This section of the frieze is currently under-appreciated as it is split between London and Athens, a doorway in the British Museum marking the absence of the relevant section of Frieze. An almost complete copy of this section of the Frieze is displayed and open to the public at Hammerwood Park near East Grinstead in Sussex.


Criticism by Elgin's contemporaries

When the marbles were shipped to Britain, there was criticism of Elgin (who had spent a fortune on the project) but also much admiration of the sculptures. Lord Byron strongly objected to their removal from Greece:

Dull is the eye that will not weep to see
Thy walls defaced, thy mouldering shrines removed
By British hands, which it had best behoved
To guard those relics ne’er to be restored.
Curst be the hour when from their isle they roved,
And once again thy hapless bosom gored,
And snatch'd thy shrinking gods to northern climes abhorred!
—"Childe Harold's Pilgrimage"

Byron was not the only Englishman to protest the removal at the time:

"The Honourable Lord has taken advantage of the most unjustifiable means and has committed the most flagrant pillages. It was, it seems, fatal that a representative of our country loot those objects that the Turks and other barbarians had considered sacred,"
said Sir John Newport.

A contemporary MP Thomas Hughes, an eye witness, later wrote:

"The abduction of small parts of the Parthenon, of a value relatively small but which previously contributed to the solidity of the building, left that glorious edifice exposed to premature ruin and degradation. The abduction dislodged from their original positions, wherefrom they precisely drew their interest and beauty, many pieces which are altogether unnecessary to the country that now owns them."

John Keats was one of those who saw them privately exhibited in London, hence his two sonnets about the marbles. Some scholars, notably Richard Payne Knight, insisted that the marbles dated from the period of the Roman Empire, but most accepted that they were authentic works from the studio of Phidias, the most famous ancient Greek sculptor. They were eventually purchased by Parliament for the nation in 1816 for £35,000 and deposited in the British Museum, where they were displayed in the Elgin Saloon (constructed in 1832), until the Duveen Gallery was completed in 1939.

Damage to marbles

To facilitate transport, the column capital of the Parthenon, the Erechtheum cornice and many metopes and slabs were sawn and sliced into smaller sections. One shipload of marbles on board the British brig Mentor was caught in a storm off Cape Matapan and sank near Kythera, but was salvaged at the Earl's expense; it took two years to bring them to the surface.[1]

While the artifacts held in London, unlike those remaining on the Parthenon, have been saved from the hazards of pollution, neglect, and war, they have also been irrevocably damaged by the unauthorized "cleaning" methods employed by British Museum staff in the 1930s, who were dismissed when this was discovered. Acting under the erroneous belief that the marbles were originally bright white, the marbles were cleaned with copper tools and caustics, causing serious damage and altering the marbles' colouring. (The Pentelicon marble on which the carvings were made naturally acquires a tan colour similar to honey when exposed to air.) In addition, the process scraped away all traces of surface colouring that the marbles originally held.

The Greek claim to the marbles

The Greek government claims that the marbles should be returned to Athens on moral grounds, although it is no longer feasible or advisable to reposition them onto the Parthenon. As part of the campaign, it is building the New Acropolis Museum, designed by the Swiss-American architect Bernard Tschumi, designed to hold the Parthenon sculptures arranged in the same way as they would have been on the Parthenon. It is intended to leave the spaces for the Elgin Marbles empty, rather than using casts in these positions, as a reminder to visitors of the fact that parts are held in other museums. The new museum plan also attracted controversy; the construction site contains late Roman and early Christian archaeology, including an unusual seventh-century Byzantine bath house and other finds from Late Antiquity. A court challenge in Greece from the International Council on Museums and Sites (ICOMOS) to the site was rejected by the Greek civil courts in 2004. The new design incorporates the archaeological finds within the building.[2]


The British Museum position

A range of slightly different points have been put by British Museum spokespersons over the years in defence of retention of the Elgin Marbles within the museum. The main points include the maintenance of a single worldwide-oriented cultural collection, all viewable in one location, thereby serving as a world heritage centre; the saving of the marbles from what would have been, or would be, pollution and other damage if relocated back to Athens; and a legal position that the museum is banned by charter from returning any part of its collection.[3] The latter was tested in the British High Court in May 2005 in relation to Nazi-looted Old Master artworks held at the museum; it was ruled that these could not be returned.[4] The judge, Sir Andrew Morritt, ruled that the British Museum Act – which protects the collections for posterity – cannot be overridden by a "moral obligation" to return works known to have been plundered. It has been argued however, that connections between the legal ruling and the Elgin Marbles were more tenuous than implied by the Attorney General[5].

Other displaced Parthenon art

Lord Elgin was neither the first, nor the last, to disperse elements of the marbles from their original location. The remainder of the surviving sculptures that are not in museums or storerooms in Athens are held in museums in various locations across Europe. The British Museum also holds additional fragments from the Parthenon sculptures acquired from various collections that have no connection with Lord Elgin.

Material from the Parthenon was dispersed both before and after Elgin's activities. The British Museum holds approximately half of the surviving sculptures. The remainder is divided among the following locations:

Athens Extensive remains of the metopes (especially east, north and west), frieze (especially west) and pediments; less than 50% is on public display and some is still on the building, including the finest metope. Paris, Musée du Louvre One frieze slab; one metope; fragments of the frieze and metopes; a head from the pediments Copenhagen, National Museum Two heads from a metope in the British Museum Würzburg, University Head from a metope in the British Museum Palermo, Museo Salinas Fragment of frieze Vatican Museums Fragments of metopes, frieze and pediments Vienna, Kunsthistorisches Three fragments of frieze Museum Munich, Glyptothek Fragments of metopes and frieze; not on display


The collection includes the following material from the Acropolis:

Parthenon 247ft of the original 524ft of frieze 15 of the 92 metopes 17 pedimental figures; various pieces of architecture Erechtheion a Caryatid, a column and other architectural members Propylaia Architectural members Temple of Athena Nike 4 slabs of the frieze and architectural members


Further reading
Christopher Hitchens, The Elgin Marbles: Should they be returned to Greece? (with essays by Robert Browning and Graham Binns) (Verso, March 1998)
William St. Clair, Lord Elgin and the Marbles (Oxford University Press, 1998)
Dorothy King, "The Elgin Marbles" (Hutchinson / Random House, January 2006)

[Tsontos]

Swede gives back Acropolis marble

By Malcolm Brabant
BBC News, Athens



The marble was picked up by Wiger-Angner's great-uncle in 1896
A retired Swedish gym teacher is the toast of Greece after returning a piece of sculpted marble taken from the Acropolis more than a century ago.

Birgit Wiger-Angner's family held the marble for 110 years, but she decided to return it to Athens after hearing about Greece's Elgin marbles campaign.

The small fragment comes from the Acropolis's Erechtheion temple.

The move has boosted the international campaign to persuade the British Museum to return the Elgin marbles to Athens.

London's reluctance

It is only a small decorative piece of marble but it is highly symbolic.

The fragment comes from the frieze of the Erechtheion, one of the ancient buildings on top of the rock called the Acropolis.


The British Museum wants to keep its Parthenon marbles

Surrounded by the original Parthenon marbles in the Acropolis Museum, Mrs Wiger-Angner called on the British Museum in London to restore to Greece the missing sculptures from this priceless collection.

"I think that all people in the British Museum should also bring back all the originals. They can make copies belonging to themselves," she said.

This is the second piece of the Acropolis jigsaw to be returned in the past two months.

In September, Heidelberg University handed back a marble heel from the Acropolis' Parthenon.

Campaigners argue that tourists would much rather see the marbles in the original location than in London.

"I think it is really just a moral obligation to add and share in the reunification of the Parthenon marbles which is a world monument," said Eleni Korka, director of classical antiquities at the Greek ministry of culture.

But the British Museum is resisting growing international pressure to return the sculptures prised from the ancient Greek temple by Lord Elgin.

It insists that the sculptures were legally obtained from the authority governing Greece when Lord Elgin supposedly saved the sculpted tablets for Queen Victoria and a grateful nation.

It does not seem troubled by the fact that the nationality of that authority was Turkish, because until the mid-19th Century, Greece was occupied by the Ottoman empire.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Swede gives back Acropolis marble

Greek pupils demand Elgin Marbles

Greek schoolchildren have demonstrated at the Acropolis in Athens to demand that the UK returns marble sculptures taken by Lord Elgin 200 years ago.
Wearing orange jackets bearing campaign logos, about 2,000 pupils formed a human chain around the monument.

The marbles are part of the Parthenon, a 2,500-year-old temple.

Greece has long campaigned for the marbles' return. But the British Museum says they are better off in London, safe from pollution damage in Athens.

Organisers said the marbles were Greece's pride and dignity. They said the symbol of Greek democracy had lain mutilated for two centuries.

Campaigners have collected 65,000 signatures and sent 900 letters of protest to the head of the British Museum in London.

The marbles were removed by British envoy Lord Elgin at the beginning of the 19th Century.

The Greek government has for years campaigned for their return, saying they were illegally removed.

The museum says it is not at liberty to give them back, and believes they are well looked after and available for millions of visitors to see in London.

It says the marbles are safe from Athens's pollution that has damaged those still there.

An organiser of Tuesday's protest said campaigners would soon stage a similar event at the British Museum.

Other cities which hold pieces of the temple to the goddess Athena include Paris, Vienna, Palermo and Munich, according to the Greek culture ministry.


Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Greek pupils demand Elgin Marbles

[Tsontos]

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ighlight=elgin

[Tsontos]

Originally Posted by Giourkas

Ancient wreath returns to Greece
BBC News, Athens


Wreath on display in Athens

Greece fought for 10 years to secure the wreath's return

A spectacular golden wreath dating back to the 4th Century BC is due to go on display at the National Archaeology Museum in Greece.

The Macedonian wreath was returned to Athens at the weekend by the Getty Museum in Los Angeles.

Greece fought for 10 years to prove that it had been illegally spirited out of the country.

The restitution of the wreath is part of a campaign aimed at restoring the Elgin (or Parthenon) Marbles to Greece.

Now restored to its rightful home, the wreath is one of the most exquisite treasures in Greece.

It is a floral crown, a confection of realistic leaves and flowers made of gold foil attached to a slender headband 28cm (11in) in diameter.

It was probably made after the death of Alexander the Great and worn on ceremonial occasions.

Experts believe it was buried with the remains of its owner in northern Greece.

The Getty Museum purchased the wreath from a Swiss dealer in 1993 for just over $1m (750,000 euros; £500,000).

Last year, the Americans finally agreed to return their prized possession after the Greeks convinced them that it had been illegally excavated and smuggled out of the country.

The Getty's director, Michael Brand, told the BBC in a statement that everyone was saddened to see the wreath leaving, but that returning it to Greece was the correct action to take.

Elgin campaign

Greece hopes that other museums will now follow the Getty's example.

In particular, it wants the British Museum in London to hand back the frieze known as the Elgin, or Parthenon, Marbles.

Greece claims they were stolen by Lord Elgin in 1801, but the British Museum insists that Lord Elgin legally obtained the Marbles from Greece's then rulers, the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Moral pressure on Britain is due to increase later this year when Greece opens the new Acropolis Museum, complete with an empty space designed to show off the marbles in Aegean light, instead of what critics call "a gloomy cellar in London's Bloomsbury district".


BBC NEWS | Europe | Ancient wreath returns to Greece

...................................

[nsminc]

I'd give my opinion but i can't find the words....

[Euklid]

The phase is:

a) They have made it clear that the marbles are owned by them.

b) We have made it clear that the marbles are to come back for good.

c)Now we are discussing the idea of lending them but that implies co-ownership.

And the Brits are saying "if we even lend them the marbles, we are never getting them back again"

And here we are.

[nsminc]

Dorothy King at the British Museum
Archaeologist Dorothy King, who breaks the mould of the dusty academic, is an outspoken critic of Greek demands to take back the Elgin Marbles from the UK.

"I think she sounds fun," Dorothy King says of Melina Mercouri, "I wish I could have been friends with her - a bit of a drama queen, but aren't we all?"

Ms Mercouri was the Oscar-nominated actress and Greek culture minister who demanded that the UK return the Parthenon sculptures - the Elgin Marbles - "in the name of fairness and morality".

But standing firm against her is Dr King, who argues in her new book against repatriating the Marbles. Like Ms Mercouri, she is a colourful character. She is irreverent and feisty, with a blog called PhDiva, and she speaks her mind on a range of issues in newspaper columns and on TV.

Not that she absolutely rules out the return of the Parthenon sculptures, removed by Lord Elgin in the early 19th Century, although her book keeps up her attack on the Greeks' ability to look after their archaeological treasures properly.

"When the Greeks can demonstrate that they too have done an admirable job of caring for the Marbles in Athens then, perhaps, we can discuss a loan.

"Should Greece ever sort out a suitable museum display, it might be possible to appreciate them [the Marbles] there fully one day," she says in her book.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Return the Marbles? Forget it

[pankration]

Typical English response: we know what's good for you better than you do. F*** them.

[Tsontos]

PARTHENON MARBLES

Greece to speak to British Museum next month about loan of artifacts

Greek officials and representatives of the British Museum may discuss possibly loaning the Parthenon Marbles to Greece when they meet on May 4, Culture Minister Giorgos Voulgarakis said yesterday. Voulgarakis was reacting to comments by Neil MacGregor, the director of the British Museum, who said that “in principle” the antiquities could spend three or six months in another country. However, MacGregor told Bloomberg News that the Greek government would first have to admit the Parthenon Marbles belong to the British Museum. “The Greek government has never asked for a loan of the material from the British Museum. The issue has always been about the permanent removal of all the Parthenon material in the BM collection to Athens,” said MacGregor. Voulgarakis said he read the comments “with interest..”

[Lakonian]

Hi guys,

i read in kosmos the other day that Greece will be "borrowing " the marbles from England under the terms that Greece accepts that the marbles belong to the British Museum. I suggest Greec accepts this term and then once taken never return them

We have them over 2000 years, they stole them for a couple of years and claimed as there own.

The loan will be for 6 months apparently.