Did ancient Greeks develop Robots?-AUTOMATOI

[Euklid]

Lakonian, right on mate, nobody says otherwise, fully agree with "cryptica", Orpheus said it loud and clear, "only the aristoi".

And i also noticed, that you do not make ridiculous claims in your threads. My comments were straight for "Talos".

As about the Ancient Greek achievements, i have offered you my opinion, which is that the Ancient Hellenes, were highly advanced. They developed mechanisms, and classified every single thing they could observe with their senses.

[Lakonian]

The Antikythera Mechanism is widely considered to be one of the most important archeological artifacts ever found. The mechanism is a geared device consisting of 30 gears in a highly complex arrangement. The mechanism is known to model astronomical phenomenon with remarkable detail.

How where these gears crafted? The complexity of them being put together is un comprehensable so how do you explain the fine teeth created on bronze none the less?

The conclusion to the antikythera mechanism is that its an automated device. A device that a none conclusive answere can be given as to how the advancement of such a craft could be placed within the time period of ancient Greece.

A device that no concrete source can be attached to it as to who actualy built it.

For myself, who reads nothing more than the genius of Greeks, the Antikythera mechanism is another slap in the face of the rational.

"The Antikythera Mechanism is widely considered to be one of the most important archeological artifacts ever found. The mechanism is a geared device consisting of 30 gears in a highly complex arrangement. The mechanism is known to model astronomical phenomenon with remarkable detail."

"The Mechanism provides a unique window on history, allowing us to view the collected astronomical knowledge of the Ancient Greeks, and through them the knowledge of the Ancient Babylonians. In many ways the Mechanism provides us with an encyclopedia of the astronomical knowledge of the time.

In addition, it also stands witness to the extraordinary mathematical and engineering capabilities of the Ancient Greeks. The Mechanism is thought to date from between 150 and 100 BC and it precedes any other known clockwork mechanisms of similar complexity by more than a millennium. The level of engineering in the mechanism is astonishing by any standards."

Right here i wanna ask any of you if you could please provide me with proof that Greeks actualy sourced Babylonian astronomical knowledge, mathematics...etc.

How was it made?
"The mechanism was made using simple steel tools. The Ancient Greeks did indeed have steel tools, and their craftsmanship in general and metal working specifically, was superb. Indeed, to prove how easily the mechanism could be manufactured in this way Michael Wright has built a fully working model of the Mechanism using traditional methods. In doing so he observed that the only really difficult part was the manufacture of the front dial, with its recessed ring. " Rubbish, this is no answere, what are the traditional tools, what method was used to construct the fine gears, and this being the only example of the mechanism, its clearly shows it was unique.

The reds are my questions......there are questions in the Antikythera site and also its own answeres which i have posted above.

Funny enough this was one of the questions posed to the scientists about the mechanism...What was it for? the answere...While a century of research has finally answered the question what the mechanism did, we are actually no nearer answering the question what was it for. There are numerous suggestions, any of which could be right.

[Paulos Melas]

I think that the whole subject is a bit of nonsense.
The Greeks always we were extremely advanced visionaries, mastering arts science mathemantics and philosophy with a unique way, nonetheless claims such like greeks had robots or greeks had nuclear weapons during antiquity or lasers etc, I simply feel that consitute an insult and assault to our civilisation and make the people who adopt and promote such foolish and hilarious ideas no better than the ignorant skopians who with the same manner and equally without any proof claim that they are macedonians!!! Plase get a grip!

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by Paulos Melas

I think that the whole subject is a bit of nonsense.
The Greeks always we were extremely advanced visionaries, mastering arts science mathemantics and philosophy with a unique way, nonetheless claims such like greeks had robots or greeks had nuclear weapons during antiquity or lasers etc, I simply feel that consitute an insult and assault to our civilisation and make the people who adopt and promote such foolish and hilarious ideas no better than the ignorant skopians who with the same manner and equally without any proof claim that they are macedonians!!! Plase get a grip!

It amazes me the malakia that one can develop....read nice and slow through the thread monkey man.......nice and slow....point to where anyone has claimed nuclear weapons lasers or robots............the topic is automata....and the basic approach to them which have led to current developments in automated machines including robots....you been in a cave or something? Can i find anyone to have an intelligent constructive and intelectual conversation without having them run there mouth before there neurons fire? Get a grip? Pick up a book malaka.

[Lakonian]

Heron and high pressure devices

Heron of Alexandria was a Greek mathematician, engineer. He is known mostly for the engineering capabilities especially with hydraulic devices, simple machines, on automations, but he was an important mathematician, too.

The formula of Heron for the area of a triangle, which is sometimes attributed to Archimedes, gives the area in terms of the sides:
A = the square root of the product of s is the semi perimeter of a triangle with sides a, b, and c.
A=(a+b+c)/2

In his book 'Mihanika' (about machines) there are descriptions of 5 different types of machines: derrick, lever, pulley, wedge and worn screw.

Heron also invented the first machine working with steam. Olive oil has a big tradition in Greece so the people in ancient Greece had also the real need to put oil out of olives. Heron had made a lot of such devices. Ctesibius also made one based on vacuum pressure!

The automations that Heron constructed remained famous in history for their originality.

In the right picture we see the automation that was forcing the doors of the temple to open whenever a fire was lit on the altar.


Get the drift, noob? such extensive knowledge in developing automated devices and in large scales as the doors of a temple opening wouldnt harm anyone to think they had further capabilities....antikythera device is fine example that had scientists head in a spin about how far the Greeks had gone......seems thats not good enough for such bright and closed minds such as yours Paulos Melas......the thread is to reveal that Greeks had abilities to develop robotic mechanisms and they did...who said anything about terminators and T-1000 mapa?

[Paulos Melas]

On the contrary Laconian I am very well acquainted with all the information that you provide.
The legendery greek tales of Talos and Pygmalion (tales no reality nonetheless) along with historical references such as the pigeon of Archytas of Tarentum or the ones of the medieval persian Jabir ibn Hayyan in his book of stones or the legendary Golem of the Jewish all form part of a the same type of anthology.
Also automatic mechanisms are also well spread among the chinese and the romans.
Further nobody challenged the complexity and importance of the Kythira Mechanism
Nonetheless the way that the whole issue is presented under the title: "Did ancient Greeks develop Robots?-AUTOMATOI" is pointing towards the wrong direction.
I believe that the presentation is quite vague, full of copy paste references and an attempt to underlyingly present a very biased hellenocentric approach.
Swearing doesn t assist to persuade that the author has indeed an efficient unbiased knowledge of the subject of ancient technology and the whole attempt is no better presented and founded than and the skopian attempt to establish the skopian macedonian legacy and origins. Both are equally shallow.
Serious presentations require a far more literate approach, a more profound knowledge and better manners than the ones the author can present and handle.
Of course "Giraskw aei didaskomenos" so with two good books one about the ancient technology and one about good manners you always stand a chance Laconian!!!

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by Paulos Melas

On the contrary Laconian I am very well acquainted with all the information that you provide.
The legendery greek tales of Talos and Pygmalion (tales no reality nonetheless) along with historical references such as the pigeon of Archytas of Tarentum or the ones of the medieval persian Jabir ibn Hayyan in his book of stones or the legendary Golem of the Jewish all form part of a the same type of anthology.
Also automatic mechanisms are also well spread among the chinese and the romans.
Further nobody challenged the complexity and importance of the Kythira Mechanism
Nonetheless the way that the whole issue is presented under the title: "Did ancient Greeks develop Robots?-AUTOMATOI" is pointing towards the wrong direction.
I believe that the presentation is quite vague, full of copy paste references and an attempt to underlyingly present a very biased hellenocentric approach.
Swearing doesn t assist to persuade that the author has indeed an efficient unbiased knowledge of the subject of ancient technology and the whole attempt is no better presented and founded than and the skopian attempt to establish the skopian macedonian legacy and origins. Both are equally shallow.
Serious presentations require a far more literate approach, a more profound knowledge and better manners than the ones the author can present and handle.
Of course "Giraskw aei didaskomenos" so with two good books one about the ancient technology and one about good manners you always stand a chance Laconian!!!

On the contrary Laconian I am very well acquainted with all the information that you provide You could have fooled me.

The legendery greek tales of Talos and Pygmalion (tales no reality nonetheless) along with historical references such as the pigeon of Archytas of Tarentum or the ones of the medieval persian Jabir ibn Hayyan in his book of stones or the legendary Golem of the Jewish all form part of a the same type of anthology. I totaly agree...so whats your problem? Do you not consider the pigeon a robot? Or your feable mind stuck in the hollywood term "robot"? There are differences between a robot and an A.I...since your clearly not in touch with so called acquainted self the difference is my malakismeno that a robot needs pre manual commands...an A.I is a self thinking problem solver meaning its able to make decisions on its own....so Melas....where have i suggested that Greeks invented such a thing?
But its more than clear since you went and read perhaps some of my olds posts or did actualy read that Archytas made a flying pigeon could you not self sustain some sort of logic to say to yourself that Greeks had abilities to creat further complex devices...such as the antikythera machanism...get off the mythology source mate..that was me showing the imagination of the ancients coming to life..inspiration...does life not imitate art malaka? I know your imitation all to well.



"Nonetheless the way that the whole issue is presented under the title: "Did ancient Greeks develop Robots?-AUTOMATOI" is pointing towards the wrong direction." Come on Melas, all the rest of the chaps in here could see what im saying...are you so higher than all of us you have deciphered my post to something deeper...ooooohhh i work for Liakopoulos the pseudo preacher...or worse..im skopian....

["B]Also automatic mechanisms are also well spread among the chinese and the romans.[/b]" Xestikami mapa...perhaps the world was wrong to tribute the renaissance to the Greeks and not the Chinese and Romans....if your firm believer that Romans pioneered things out of there own wits mate you are beyong help.....they had a giant shoulder to lean on as Isac Newton or Galileo once said...do a little google search on that.


I believe that the presentation is quite vague, full of copy paste references and an attempt to underlyingly present a very biased hellenocentric approach. Well we all cant be as quick as you my friend, show us the way.......hellenocentric? Oh brother....not another commi.


Serious presentations require a far more literate approach, a more profound knowledge and better manners than the ones the author can present and handle. What do you want me to do Melas, re write history? I simply raised a case which has many valid arguements....perhaps you need to refer yourself to my ancient greek industrial post....better acquant yourself with some sources before you can make your hollow accusations.

And dude, your writing is like blurbs without any spacing...learn how to write man...

Go bounce a ball up against a wall.

[Paulos Melas]

Laconian you are a truly picturesque character!!!
Your ignorance and rudeness are in fact quite amusing!!!
Farewell.

[pankration]

As entertaining as the sniping is, it's not necessary to bite at each other. The whole point, as I see it, of this thread was to merely show how advanced the thinking of the Greeks was, not their actual applications of these. Is Leonardo Da Vinci any less a genius because during his lifetime none of his inventions worked? Yet he had ideas involving various war machines, submarines, parachutes, hang gliders, etc. that only in the last century came to fruition. As Lakonian pointed out, the Greeks ascribed mechanical attributes to many things and ideas. The fact that they could visualize the automati is a credit to their ability to CREATE rather than just alter or develop. I think that Paulos misunderstood the intent of this thread. The ideas are referenced by many Greek writers; why should we be apologists for something that our ancestors had the foresight to see happening?

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by pankration

As entertaining as the sniping is, it's not necessary to bite at each other. The whole point, as I see it, of this thread was to merely show how advanced the thinking of the Greeks was, not their actual applications of these. Is Leonardo Da Vinci any less a genius because during his lifetime none of his inventions worked? Yet he had ideas involving various war machines, submarines, parachutes, hang gliders, etc. that only in the last century came to fruition. As Lakonian pointed out, the Greeks ascribed mechanical attributes to many things and ideas. The fact that they could visualize the automati is a credit to their ability to CREATE rather than just alter or develop. I think that Paulos misunderstood the intent of this thread. The ideas are referenced by many Greek writers; why should we be apologists for something that our ancestors had the foresight to see happening?

It is good see there are hellenes dwelling this planet as yourself pankration...im glad you looked past many pointless posts in this thread, and saw what anyone with logic could see.