Modern Greeks were created.

[Dikigoros1981]

Originally Posted by Xiotis

As has been shown in the posts above there was a large and influential Greek diaspora community in Italy during the past 500 years.

The following is a reference to Demetrius Chalcondyles who was a teacher at the University of Padua during the 1400's.

The new and unsupported FYROMian propaganda suggests that Greeks were manufactured during the 19th century, there was no concept of "Greece" prior to the 19th century, and that there were no Greeks that were conscious of any ancient Greek heritage prior to the 1800's.

In the following excerpt Chalcondyles laments about enslaved Greece, draws a connection between the contemporary Greeks and ancient Greece, and expresses a kinship between the Greeks in Italy and the Greeks in Greece. This destroys the FYROMian position.





And to reiterate Slayers point from above: where is the evidence of "ethnic Macedonian" diaspora communities throughout the centuries? According to the FYROMians they are one of the oldest ethnicities in Europe. Surely they can find volumes of evidence describing "ethnic Macedonians" around the European continent?

Great stuff Xioti

It is quite interesting that many of the principles applied by "fyromian scholars" lol is actually used in commercial law. I've had my own practise for just over a year now, and whenever my client seems in extreme trouble and unlikely to be victorious, I apply the principles of trying to confuse the other side. If you can't beat them, confuse them. Fyromians have endeavoured to do this, however they fail to realise that this can't be applied to us. Our history is not built on lies.

Dikigoros1981

[Xiotis]

Another scholarly journal article written by a non Greek describing the Greeks in a diaspora community, in this case in Genoese controlled Crimea:





To pose Slayer's original question again: Has anybody ever seen evidence of an "ethnic Macedonian" community, prior to the 19th century, outside of what the FYROMians consider "geographic Macedonia"?

PS to Diki1981 - good to see you back my friend.

[Dikigoros1981]

Originally Posted by Xiotis

Another scholarly journal article written by a non Greek describing the Greeks in a diaspora community, in this case in Genoese controlled Crimea:





To pose Slayer's original question again: Has anybody ever seen evidence of an "ethnic Macedonian" community, prior to the 19th century, outside of what the FYROMians consider "geographic Macedonia"?

PS to Diki1981 - good to see you back my friend.

Xiotis

I'm in Kerkyra currently, and will be heading over to the north western region to do some much needed anthropological work.

I'll keep in touch. Still reading the forums by the way, and working on my materials whilst keeping a business afloat at the same time.

Stay well, ta leme

Dikigoros1981

[Xiotis]

Yet another example of a first hand account describing Greeks in foreign lands.

The following account was authored by Edward Brown in 1739. It describes the "nationalities" that he found in Cairo. The usual FYROMian argument that Greek actually meant Christian back then can't apply because Brown lists other Christian groups in addition to Greeks. Note that this excerpt was authored almost 100 years before the establishment of the Greek state and hence destroys the comical and absurd FYROMian argument that the Greek ethnos was manufactured post 1820. Can the same peddlers of that propaganda provide examples of "ethnic Macedonians" in diaspora communities prior to the 1800s?




So.....a disinterested observer recorded members of a Greek nation in a foreign city almost 100 years before FYROMian propagandists claim Greeks were artificially manufactured. This sure makes the likes of the comical 'historian' Risto Stefov look really uneducated when he makes idiotic claims such as the following:

[kostas68]

A very interesting book written by Adamantios Korais at first in 1801 and republished for second time in 1821 <Σάλπισμα πολεμιστήριον> (War bugle call).This book demolishes two Scopian lies:1)That the German king Otto was the one who introduced the ethnic name Hellen in modern Greece,since we can find the mention of the term <Hellen> and its derivatives in almost every page.
2)That the Greeks didn't use the term <Macedonians> as the regional name of the Greeks in Macedonia,they didn't know nothing about Alexander at that time,they didn't considered the ancient Macedonians as Greeks(yes,they've claimed even this!)e.t.c.





<This war bugle call is published for second time,under different circumstances from those of 1801,when it was published for first time.Greece called then her children,as auxiliaries of other nations,from whom she expected her liberation.Today are fighting her own children to liberate themselves,hoping for support from the enlightened Europe...>


<Brothers,friends and compatriots,descendands of the Hellenes and brave fighters of the freedom of the Hellenic nation,the Greek residends of Egypt and all the others who reside in Greece or elsewhere,waiting for the time of the common freedom of our nation...>


<Thence those wonderful and famous Greeks were subjugated at first to Alexander's succesors.But that wasn't so bad,because Alexander's succesors were themselves also Greeks.>


<Epirotans,remember the achievents of your ancestors....Thessalians and Macedonians,remember that your ancestors defeated totally Darius,who was incomparably more terrible king than the present unmanly and effeminate tyrant of Greece.Peloponnesians and the rest of the Greeks,don't forget the trophies that your ancestors erected thank to their victories against the barbarians.And especially you,the Maniates,bethink that you are blood of the Spartans.All of you together,who are glorified by the bright name of the Hellenes....>

[Slayer]

Great work guys

It's apparent that the making of the Modern Greeks is one of the longest social experiments in history or Modern Greeks are a continuation of many documented phases in Hellenic history. We do not claim to be an unbroken bloodline from 3000 years ago. What we do claim is that through even the darkest periods in Greek, European and world History the Hellenic Flame was never extinguished. The Greeks are Europe's oldest Civilisation. We have been documented either by our own or by others, no matter what direction one looks the Greeks never dispareared and we will never give up on what we are rightfully heirs to.

[kostas68]

Some more proofs for our incredulous friends:








I love especially this one: <Alexander the Great,the emperor of the Hellenes>

[kostas68]

<The history of the Greek revolution> by John.L.Comstock,published in New York,1828.



What lands considered many westerners as Greek?What considered the Greeks themselves that belonged to them?








Why both foreigners and Greeks considered Macedonia as a land that belonged to Greece?The answer is simple.Because there were living numerous Greek populations:



They had uprised against the Turks,simoultaneously with their southern brethren:



And they called themselves Macedonians,at a time when the ancestors of today's Scopians <discover> this name:



Simple Greek people knew from whom they were descending,they didn't need king Otto to teach them that their ancestors were the ancient Greeks like Leonidas,Nestor and Alexander the Great:



Do you believe that the ancestors of the Scopians knew back in 1828 more about Alexander the Great and Macedonia or about Djenghis Han and Mongolia?
How could they learn Macedonia's history,since they closed the only available schools in Macedonia at that time?

[Grace]

what does Kriezis mean in Greek?
Kryezi means 'Black (Zi) Head (Krye)' in Albanian so I am wondering.

Update. Never mind they come from Hydra

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Grace

what does Kriezis mean in Greek?
Kryezi means 'Black (Zi) Head (Krye)' in Albanian so I am wondering.

Update. Never mind they come from Hydra

don't tell me I'll guess..

He too was another proud son of Albania that spat on or even better, was brainwashed to such extent that he had forgotten all about his true origins and was tricked into fighting for the liberties of Hellas... and as if that wasn't bad enough.. those Hellenic scum also tricked him into becoming their PM.. right ?

Oh, just out of a weird coincidence, his wife was also from Hydra.. but she was named Boulgaris.. now could that mean that she was Bulgarian or was the name nothing more than the Byzantine term for a tanner?? (in your view obviously the first while unfortunately for you, based on onomatology we may safely conclude its the second)

Speaking of tanners, under your logic, those that bear the name "Tabakis" aren't Hellenes either but Turks, since the name "Tabakis" also means tanner but this time in Turkish..

Now while looking back at Kriezis we find that he just might have a distant cousin only based on your view... this time of Turkish origin.. since "Karampasis" means "black head" and was used as a title for priests.. then again they could both be related to Papas (priest), who undoubtably was a Hellene..

Satisfied or would you like me to write down a whole list of names for you to claim connections ?