Albanians are your brothers ;)

[Grace]

same as athens, one decides to make it a capital and 40% of the population will follow people there

[Mygdonia]

Originally Posted by Grace

Yes, I know the 'hate' and selective history, but genetically speaking there is very little difference. This is not to say that Fallmerayer is right but still we probably came at the same time and as you know many Albanians settled in Greece. But then, many Greeks might have settled in Albania long before that:





We'll leave the "but we're better" for another time.

I think Tosks have a cousin type relationship with Greeks but Ghegs and Greeks no chance.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Grace

Yes, I know the 'hate' and selective history, but genetically speaking there is very little difference. This is not to say that Fallmerayer is right but still we probably came at the same time and as you know many Albanians settled in Greece. But then, many Greeks might have settled in Albania long before that:





We'll leave the "but we're better" for another time.

The first question here is IF you actually know the Fallmerayer thesis and why its been trashed (since you like genetics and customs)?
the second is why even dare try to get into such a discussion when your own source states:

Speaking Albanian, for example, is not a predictor with respect to other matters of identity. In southern Albania, bilingual populations speak Albanian and Greek, and among those who speak Greek are some who have considered themselves either politically or ethnically Greek (or, in certain cases, autonomously Northern Epirot). The several hundred thousand recent migrants from Albania into Greece include self-described ethnic Greeks as well as other kinds of Albanian citizens. There are also long-standing Christian Albanian (or Arvanitika-speaking) communities both in Epiros and the Florina district of Macedonia with unquestioned identifications with the Greek nation.

Culture, Civilization, and Demarcation at the Northwest Borders of Greece
Author(s): Laurie Kain Hart p.199



Wasn't this the article you allegedly cited in another topic and since it is, why the selective quotations or even comprehension of is?

[Grace]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

The first question here is IF you actually know the Fallmerayer thesis and why its been trashed (since you like genetics and customs)?
the second is why even dare try to get into such a discussion when your own source states:


Culture, Civilization, and Demarcation at the Northwest Borders of Greece
Author(s): Laurie Kain Hart p.199



Wasn't this the article you allegedly cited in another topic and since it is, why the selective quotations or even comprehension of is?

I don't think I cited this, but I can cite quite a few other ones, including Greek, that identify them as ALBANIANS, not Albanian speakers. And DNA speaks for itself. Including a paper that calls them Tsam (Cham) Albanians

For now: he is a greek scholar and apparently in good standing :

http://books.google.com/books?id=vpg...mzLxVztQJ8g6-k

Yes, with what I hear, quite a few "Greeks" from Albania have gotten an EU passport

[Draco]

Originally Posted by Grace

And DNA speaks for itself.

Don't tell me you believe that "DNA makes the nation"!

[Tsontos]

Originally Posted by Grace

Tsontos,
go ahead with your attitude. What can I say. if we threw out all the Greeks, and kept their property what would say? Accuse them of collaborating with Greece to annex the south Albania? As far as Greece being more powerful: it is, but there is also a sense of justice and a sense that mistakes have been made on both sides and the property is theirs.

You dont understand that we feel we are in the moral high ground regarding the cham "issue". It is simply not and never will be an issue for Greece or Greeks. I understand alot has been made of returning property in Albania but we just dont care and more than that, we would find it morally reprehensible to do so.

Albanians got labeled "Turks" because that's how it was back then: religion was it, and we do get along very well.

I meant Muslim Albanians being labelled Turks by other secular Albanians.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Grace

I don't think I cited this, but I can cite quite a few other ones, including Greek, that identify them as ALBANIANS, not Albanian speakers. And DNA speaks for itself. Including a paper that calls them Tsam (Cham) Albanians

For now: he is a greek scholar and apparently in good standing :

http://books.google.com/books?id=vpg...mzLxVztQJ8g6-k

Yes, with what I hear, quite a few "Greeks" from Albania have gotten an EU passport

Well think again and while you're thinking, reread what you posted..

For now, what is of interest isn't some alleged quotes who's accuracy may be questioned simply based on the fact that they only appear in a nationalistic Albanian forum, in which we find claims on everything, from lands, customs, even ancient Hellenic Gods... but your desparation to connect yourself to a people that either you like it or not (which you obviously don't) never have nor will ever consider themselves Albanians.. as your own choice of source clarifies:

include self-described ethnic Greeks

As for your sources.. you just don't get it that no scholar can make you an Albanian, that is what you are, its what you want to be.. just like they (the Arvanites) don't need a scholar to tell them they're Hellenes.. THAT is what they are !!!

PS: why avoid addressing the Fallmerayer issue.. don't bring up something you aren't prepared to back up.

[Grace]

First, I could care less. The desperation is more on the Greek side that brainwashed everyone into believing that they are "supreme" as that is what holds the country together. I don't blame them for not wanting to be called Albanians, they would probably lose their jobs, and feel discriminated. Many Albanians are changing thei rnames to be Greek to try to fit in and earn their daily bread. Plus, being Albanian means they're not connected to Alexander the Great and Socrates. It's a mind thing. Whatever works for you and them.

>> PS: why avoid addressing the Fallmerayer issue.. don't bring up something you aren't prepared to back up.

Ok, go on. Look at the DNA and tell me, what's the difference. Where is this "hellenic" blood, or is it just a way of thinking, or reading the classics?

anyway,
we're running in circles and I'm out of this: They are GREEK and fought like Leonidas. The paranoia in Greece is astounding. Behind that facade I sense fear. In Albania we did the same for 45 years.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Grace

First, I could care less.

Then why are you even discussing the topic if you don't?

The desperation is more on the Greek side that brainwashed everyone into believing that they are "supreme" as that is what holds the country together.

Who ever used such racist terms or promoted anything remotely related to superiority, if you've found such ideas promoted in here state them or stop insinuating that we promote such BS.

I don't blame them for not wanting to be called Albanians, they would probably lose their jobs, and feel discriminated.

Totally fallacious claim made by an individual that obviously knows nothing about his compatriots that reside in Hellas.
So the Arvanites, who you continue to title Albanians and by doing so, deprive them of their right to identify theirselve in which ever manner they choose would be discriminated and lose their jobs.. so how do you intend to explain the fact that your own newspaper SKRIP (last Aug.) wrote that the Albanian immigrants in Hellas (those that obviously don't hide their identity) have a total of some 2 billion euros deposited in Hellenic banks... aren't they discriminated, don't they lose their jobs ???

Many Albanians are changing thei rnames to be Greek to try to fit in and earn their daily bread.

The funny thing is that I've heard that claim (name change) from several Albanians that have popped in here (and other fora) from time to time.. the only difference is that they claim that they're even being paid off to do so, since thats the perfect way to deny the existance of the V.Epirotes...
IF these Albanians denounce their ancestry for $$$ well that should tell you volumes about your society and not a single thing about us.. but as clarified above with facts your own newspapers state, you're obviously misinformed.

Plus, being Albanian means they're not connected to Alexander the Great and Socrates. It's a mind thing. Whatever works for you and them.

But they'd be descendants of the Illyrians, Pelasgians, they'd have the honour of speaking the language which gave birth to God names like Zeus, Athena, Thetis..etc
Isn't that a far greater honour than being descendant of Socrates?

Ok, go on. Look at the DNA and tell me, what's the difference. Where is this "hellenic" blood, or is it just a way of thinking, or reading the classics?

I clearly asked IF you know what his thesis was and by a simple glance at your responce, you've proven to be totally ignorant of it. So unless you and the rest of the Albanians are Slavs, even refering to him is rediculous.

anyway,
we're running in circles and I'm out of this: They are GREEK and fought like Leonidas. The paranoia in Greece is astounding. Behind that facade I sense fear. In Albania we did the same for 45 years.

Paranoia???
Lets see what should be described as such:
a) someone supporting the belief of a group of people (Arvanites) who's only desire is to be associated with the Hellenes

b) someone who despite their own desire, even though he knows they loath being titled as such, does everything he can to support that they are Albanian and for what??? maybe to claim that the Albanians weren't the Turk's lackeys but were the reason this part of land was liberated?
(yeah I do read the crap posted in albanian.com a whole lot)

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Grace

Yes, I know the 'hate' and selective history, but genetically speaking there is very little difference. This is not to say that Fallmerayer is right but still we probably came at the same time and as you know many Albanians settled in Greece. But then, many Greeks might have settled in Albania long before that:





We'll leave the "but we're better" for another time.

Albanians are probably a mixture of Illyrians and Dacians (Thracians) at least linguistically, and have lived north of the Greeks longer than any other group (accept maybe for Greeks and Southern Italians and Sicilians). So yes, they are probably the most "alike" in many respects.