The best Greek General in Antiquity

[preston]

Hello Terastie And Welcome To Our Forum.

[Spartan]

Welcome Terastios! Great to see more Greeks in here and to here there opinions!:thumbs:

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Originally Posted by terastios

I voted for Phillipos not because i dont think Alexandros was a great fighter and leader but because the question is "who was the best General" and i really believe that with out the strategic moves and the preperation of Phillipos,Alexander could never do what he did afterwoods!
Alexandros was a fighting spirit,a fearless fighter but not a great General!
Even the battles he gave and won were STRATEGICALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!!(An thats why he won i believe!)

P.S. This is my 1st post here and i have to say hello to everyone and i'm glad to be here!

Welcome Terastios.Grat to have you here. As for the general thing, I still have to say Philip was the greatest general due to his planning. He planned the whole Persian invasion. As for Alexander, I would never doubt his grit, on the battlefield who could match him? Just overall, at this point, I give it to his dad, but who is to say I am not wrong. As for Leonidas and the rest, I'll be a fool if I didn't say they were great.

[HellenicPride]

I was caught in between Alexander and Phillip but in the end I had to pick Alexander. Why it is true Phillip united the Greeks and had the vision to go to Persia, but fortunately for Alexander he was the one who went through with it and did it. So Alexander was definately a better general.

[Truth Bearer]

Alexander The Great was by just the sheer victories and conquests.Yes Philip was the architect the creator and producer but Alexander went to the ends of the Earth.Alexander NEVER lost went down as the ONLY undefeated king/general in history.How did he do it?With heaps of luck,bold very bold moves,his aura and fearlessness in battle and to tell you the truth he spooked his opposition.That worked for him in Guagamela as by then he was considered a god and when those poor wretched superstitious Persians saw him charging at them they totally buckled broke ranks and opened the flank.His sense of invicibility and the psycological weakness in the opposition played in his favour.He was also a great studier read Xenophons Anabasis inside out understanding his opponents strenghts and weaknesses.Alexander was the greatest in warfare butr sadly in administration nhe had no idea never consolidated his conquests and trusted far too many men who eventually let him down.I coluld go on and on about the greatest general in HISTORY but not to overwrite it we can continue on later time.

[Andrew]

I voted Philippos guys ..why you can find it here:
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...html#post66026

"Europe had never before a man of such value like Philip the son of Amyntas" THEOPOMPUS

[Truth Bearer]

Yes true and a great politician at that too but sadly he never saw his dream become reality......(no thanks to that scheming wife of his)

[Cadmus]

I voted for Epaminondas why?

He taught everything to Philipos and Philipos improved his strategy but Epaminondas was the inventor of the Phalanx and without him Philipos could not had mastered such a brilliant battlefield formation..

Epaminondas and his Theban sacred band were the best and most loyal fighters,allthough gay they gave their lives for their lovers! (how romantic LOL)

Guys is there any news on Thevai(Thebes) I have heard that still important parts of ancient thebes are being excavated in Thevai including shrines/temples etc..

For me Thebes is one of the most important ancient city's..with an incredible history..just as old and important as Athens..

To bad that modern Thevai is exactly on top of Thebes and still much of this ancient gem is underground!

[Truth Bearer]

Yep good one too and Epaminondas is the first genearl to beat the Spartans on their home soil......His influence over Philip started the great Macedonian war machine.

[Andrew]

I don't say that Epameinondas wasn't great ...But if you seach more you will see that even Epameinondas "took info" by the Pythagorians that moved to Thebes ..and some say that his origin was from the Greek colonies of Italy , were a great General (undefeated for 10 years) and pythagorian philisopher dwelt in Taras. His name is Archytas.

Yet the greatness of Epameinondas is that he fisrt "inverted" the attack sequence .. Before Epameinondas the Greeks were first attacking the weak part of the opponent army (watch Miltiades in Marathon ,and the clasic Spartan Right flank who attacked the opposit left that was more weak).
with Epameinondas we have the OBLIQUE PHALANX ..put all the "weight" in the flank that opposes the enemy's best , retropost your weak part. By that way when you break the enemy's best part your weak part isn't yet engaged
..That was Epameinondas' brilliance.
Philip yes ..took lessons from Epam. , but he was an innovator himself ..
..watch SARISSA , and he was the first Greek to give direct role to the Cavalry , tradition that Alexander kept.
Outstanding Evaluation capacities in battle real time ... In Chaeronea he knew that the Athenians were arrogant enough to follow him in his initial retreat that caused the central apperture later.That knowlegde/Correct evaluation made him start his move by the Athenean side.
Of course all these virtues are recognized also in Alexander ..who I think learned a lot from his father .
I read somewhere ( I don't know if anyone knows the exact font) , that when "the openminded Philip was asked to express his opinion about Xenophon and his 10000 , Philip replied "with 30.000 someone can conquer Persia"". Well Alexander did it with 45000 ..So Philip's estimation was VERY VERY close to that number !! (Again OUTSTANDING EVALUATION CAPACITY)

But I must say that from this POLL two names are missing:
IPHIKRATES & THEMISTOKLES and probalby many others ..Greece is a reservoir of genius generals

IPHIKRATES is considered by some the great reformer of the phalanx. He was the first to win the Spartan compact phalanx with his Athenian peltasts.

THEMISTOKLES from the other hand is responsible for the Athenean navy that Kimonas and Perikles used to make Athens "queen" of the Aegean.
He inagurated the construction of the long walls in Athens , because in 479 BC he "saw" that after the Persians will go there will be an engage with the Peloponnesians ....FARSIGHTED ..the Peloponnesian war first expression goes 30 years after Themistokles "guess".About strategical skills ..they were more NAVAL ones ..watch Salamis battle plan ...with the initial retreat of the greek center that caused Persian center isolation in the "stena" and later attacked by the Greek flanks.
Thoukydides (I.138) :

Ἦν γὰρ ὁ Θεμιστοκλῆς βεβαιότατα δὴ φύσεως ἰσχὺν δηλώσας καὶ διαφερόντως τι ἐς αὐτὸ μᾶλλον ἑτέρου ἄξιος θαυμάσαι· οἰκείᾳ γὰρ ξυνέσει καὶ οὔτε προμαθὼν ἐς αὐτὴν οὐδὲν οὔτ' ἐπιμαθών, τῶν τε παραχρῆμα δι' ἐλαχίστης βουλῆς κράτιστος γνώμων καὶ τῶν μελλόντων ἐπὶ πλεῖστον τοῦ γενησομένου ἄριστος εἰκαστής· καὶ ἃ μὲν μετὰ χεῖρας ἔχοι, καὶ ἐξηγήσασθαι οἷός τε, ὧν δ' ἄπειρος εἴη, κρῖναι ἱκανῶς οὐκ ἀπήλλακτο· τό τε ἄμεινον ἢ χεῖρον ἐν τῷ ἀφανεῖ ἔτι προεώρα μάλιστα. καὶ τὸ ξύμπαν εἰπεῖν φύσεως μὲν δυνάμει, μελέτης δὲ βραχύτητι κράτιστος δὴ οὗτος αὐτοσχεδιάζειν τὰ δέοντα ἐγένετο

For Themistocles was a man who exhibited the most indubitable signs of genius; indeed, in this particular he has a claim on our admiration quite extraordinary and unparalleled. By his own native capacity, alike unformed and unsupplemented by study, he was at once the best judge in those sudden crises which admit of little or of no deliberation, and the best prophet of the future, even to its most distant possibilities. An able theoretical expositor of all that came within the sphere of his practice, he was not without the power of passing an adequate judgment in matters in which he had no experience. He could also excellently divine the good and evil which lay hid in the unseen future. In fine, whether we consider the extent of his natural powers, or the slightness of his application, this extraordinary man must be allowed to have surpassed all others in the faculty of intuitively meeting an emergency.