The Glory that was Greece

[GreekSlav]

I love Greece. It is why I speak boldly and the way I do. To be silent would be detrimental to my Greekness and the Greek people. Nikos Dimou is one of my favorite Greeks. He speaks boldly, for he loves Greece and the Greek people. I love his writings and include one here. This is exactly my feelings toward many things for and againest present Greek thought. To speak one's mind is a true Greek trait:

The Glory that was Greece


- I wish statesmen were poets, said Ion.

- Why?

- Because Poets always loved Greece! They had a weakness for this country. They were ready to forgive our mistakes, to understand our problems, to help in times of need. Remember Byron? Now nobody cares for us...

In the rays of the setting sun, eighteen-year old Ion looked like an ancient statue of Antinoos.

- Why is it that you Greeks want so much to be loved? You have an overwhelming need for warmth and care. You divide all foreigners into friends and foes -- Philellenes and Misellenes, Greek-lovers and Greek-haters. Has it never dawned upon you that most people are neutral and indifferent?

That was Robert the Scot, speaking. He was sipping at his ouzo. (Unlike Greeks, he hates scotch whisky.)

- This is the Greek way to look at history and politics, I said. Dramatic, not to say melodramatic. Our philosophy of history explains everything after the pattern set by the presocratic philosopher Empedocles. Two powers shaped the cosmos
-- strife (νείκος) and love (φιλότης). It is a very old theory...

- Ah -- here come the ancestors, again. Everything is filtered through the past.

- They had a word for you, Rob: cynic!

- OK. They discovered everything. But what about you? Aren't you tired to live in their shade -- and at their expense? Furthermore I do not think you can identify yourselves with the ancient Greeks by right of inheritance. You have to earn that distinction.

- Are you a disciple of Fallmerayer -- the German historian who maintained that the modern Greeks had nothing in common with the ancient ones?

- Yes, and no. Biologically and genetically you know that any theory of continuity over two thousand years is nonsense. Not to say that any contention about Greek blood and purity of the race smacks of Nazi-Aryan racism. So if the idea is that you are the direct descendants -- forget it!

- But the language, Rob? It has subsisted over two thousand years!

- That is not enough. Language can be learned or transmitted. My associate, a Nigerian, speaks perfect Greek. Australians and Canadians, Americans and West Indians, speak English. Does that make them the grandsons of King Arthur? All Latin Americans speak Spanish without claiming to be Spaniards -- and Italians do not declare they are Romans, although their language is as close to Latin as yours to Ancient Greek.

- Rob, you like Greece! You left your bonny banks and braes to live in this country. What makes you so anti-Greek? You sound like the worst Greek-haters!

- It is because I like Greece and Greeks that I speak in this way. I think you have a problem of identity. Its roots are to be found mainly in your distorted relationship to your forefathers. Mind you, it is also our fault..

- Yours? Whom do you mean?

- Ours, West- Europeans, Non-Greeks. We taught you to pose as modern versions of Pericles. The late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries imitated and idealized antiquity -- we inoculated you with this romantic fallacy. Just think of the Bavarians of Ludwig and Otho -- their neo-classic ideals and buildings. To us you were not a new nation in its own right -- just a sequel. A neo-classic country with a neo-classic language, as phony as the buildings. The famous "catharevousa"!

- But, Rob, we feel Greek!

- Now that, is something else. Something I respect -- for you cannot question a person's inner truth. Only beware: it is not enough to feel -- you must prove it.

- You mean: prove worthy of the Ancients?

- Yes, in a way. Remember Isocrates' definition? Anyone is a Greek if he partakes of our culture. An Oxford don, studying the classics, may be (in a timeless sense) more Greek than you are. Not of course in real terms -- he will still have a British passport.

- I admit that the West did a lot to study, cultivate and revive our ancient culture. The French dug up Delphi and the Germans Olympia. Even we Greeks study our classics in foreign editions -- Oxford, Loeb, Teubner or Budé. But on the other hand the very same West has had a rather negative influence on our life, our subsistence as a nation...

- I will not contest this. It is in the nature of things. All small nations have -- at one time or another -- fallen victims to the Great Powers. Although I do not think that you have been treated so badly. You are the only nation in the area that has been constantly growing over the last hundred years. What I mainly wanted to say, is something else: that probably, the worst evil we Westerners inflicted upon you, was the result not of hate or indifference, but of love.

- Are you kidding?

- No. Like the parents who force their child into a profession of their liking, we tried to impose upon you a role of our choice. At the time of your liberation, we ignored your real personality and gave you a new glorious one. The Neo-Ancient Greeks. Mind you, you accepted the role willingly...

- With enthusiasm! Who would not like to be Achilles! The problems came later. This identification made us feel superior -- while, on the other hand, we saw that this superiority did not apply to our present position in the world. So we aquired, simultaneously, a superiority complex and an inferiority one.

- And there is nothing worse than a person who feels superior to find himself in such a situation. I don't blame you -- I blame us. You were a young nation, innocent and pure. It was natural for you to succumb to delusions of grandeur. Everybody wants to be somebody -- especially if he does not have to work for it. You fled into a splendid past. As for the present and the future...

- Probably it is what we are experiencing now. The disenchantment...

-It was forseeable: You were spoiled. Some of us, great admirers of your ancestors, gave you the impression you were something unique, a chosen people, the salt of the earth. Your own demagogues did the rest. They exploited your feelings and cast you often in the role "the supermen as underdogs."

- You mean "we, the special people, always wronged, etc."

- Exactly. Now, when you constantly complain that you are not loved -- as our friend Ion maintained -- you actually voice the disillusionment of a favorite child. Every time you react like spoiled brats, I feel it is to a great extend our fault.

- Three thousand year old kids! You mean we have never grown up?

- No, thank God. As in the times of Plato, you are “eternal children." This is your charm -- but also your nemesis.

- And so we always count on special treatment. We complain if everybody does not automatically accept our point of view (even if, as in the case of Macedonia, we have never stated it clearly). We demand priority in all issues...

- Of course! And you expect everybody to treasure and admire you. Every time a political leader or a journalist proves indifferent to your charm, there comes the label: ανθέλληνας anti-Greek!

- But we Greeks, we are something special, aren't we, said Ion. We are not like everybody else!

- Ion, if I did not know you well, I would call you a racist. You are not. You are a child -- and like every child you have been taught how important and unique you are. The same is true of (almost) all your compatriots.

- So, then, just like everybody else? There was disappointment in Ion's voice.

- You start like everybody else -- and you are what you become. It is up to you to mature into something special. You are not born that way. And you cannot inherit greatness. The son of a Nobel laureate is no more worth than the kid next door. I admit that it is very important to live in the same country and speak (almost) the same language as Plato and Aristoteles. But just as a starting point, not as an achievement.

- A starting point, said I, towards a new form of culture, incorporating vital elements of the past but actual and modern, that would be something different, original and genuinely our own.

- There are wonderful people and wonderful things in this country (Rob sipped a long draught of ouzo) really worth living for. But sometimes I think you appreciate the wrong items. You stick to shades of yesteryear, phantoms of glory, names, words, ideas -- and forget the essence. In times of crisis you should remember the wisdom of wily Odysseus -- not the boisterousness of Ajax. This is an excellent ouzo!

[Spartan]

Saying that it was the west that Gave Greece the will and the way to once again become Greeks is TOTAL B.S! The Greeks retained these things throughout their history through the Byzantine and Ottoman periods and did not need the west to 'awaken' it! So many people think the the idea of revolution and democracy were brought to Greece by the events of the American and French revolutions but IN REALITY it was the Greeks who left the Greek lands after the Ottomans conquered WHO BROUGHT THOSE IDEAS TO THE WEST! It was the Greeks of the Diaspora and certain strong enclaves such as Mani in the Peleponnese who "awakened" the Greek people NOT THE WEST!

And to say that there is no genetic link between the Ancient and modern Greeks is pure RACISM. A strong culture NEVER DIES, thus if the culture never dies NEITHER does their DNA!

Now I do have to say it is partially correct that you can't be considered great without ever achieving something yourself. But many of todays Greeks have proven their worth just like many of us Greeks in here have!

We are Greek not only due to our DNA but also due to our love of our land, heritage, pride, language, SURVIVAL, passion, ingenuity, logic.

The ancient Greeks number ONE worship WAS OF THEIR ANCESTORS and that is why before doing anything each and everyday wether it be daily life, political or religious THEY ALWAYS MADE OFFERINGS TO THE SACRED FIRE! This fire represented their ancestors and their worship of them! So to tell a Greek that living in the past is detrimental to Greece and to Greeks is completely innacurate and very UN-GREEK!

[Slayer]

here we go again

[Morphesau]

All this coming from a desperate man whos a true believer of the Illyrian - Albanian false connection and not to mention the Bulgarians clams to the makedones. Now I see a desperate man trying to clink on to a false reality.

Hey buddy tell the Chinese this and why not to the Iranians that they aren't the decentents of the the Persians.

Its obvious that you are a racist and a lover of the Turks as we've seen at network54.


YOU ARE NOT A GREEK

[GreekSlav]

Biologically and genetically you know that any theory of continuity over two thousand years is nonsense.

The claims by modern Greeks concerning the connection to ancient Greeks compared to the claims of modern day Macedonians concerning their connection with the ancient Macedonians are the same. Both ARE TOTAL BS

[Slayer]

Originally Posted by GreekSlav

Biologically and genetically you know that any theory of continuity over two thousand years is nonsense.

The claims by modern Greeks concerning the connection to ancient Greeks compared to the claims of modern day Macedonians concerning their connection with the ancient Macedonians are the same. Both ARE TOTAL BS

So who are the Modern Greeks and who are the modern Skopiani in your own words GrekSlav?

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by GreekSlav

Biologically and genetically you know that any theory of continuity over two thousand years is nonsense.

The claims by modern Greeks concerning the connection to ancient Greeks compared to the claims of modern day Macedonians concerning their connection with the ancient Macedonians are the same. Both ARE TOTAL BS

Unfortunately for Dhmou, Lithoxoou, Nakratzas and all the so-called progressivists that like to play it patriots while throwing the Nazi label with such ease, genetics do prove him and of course you who's clapping to be totally ignorant on the issue.

Was there any contribution to the Hellenic gene pool by all those that have past through these lands throughout history?

Of course there has been, but is this contribution to such an extent so that fools like Dhmou can claim that we are nothing more than a motley horde composed of many races (just a bit of Isokrates for ya) with no relation to our ancestors so that he may satisfy his employers at Soros corp ?

A long list of genetists yell hell no.

If you feel up to it, we can get onto the technical aspects of the issue.

[preston]

Ask your self what is more important...your love of Greece or Greece's love of you. The second you do not have!!
If you love your country, protect her like our ancestors have done and like WE do now. Cherish the fact that God has given you a little corner of this planet that everyone admires..and do not give it away to anyone...especial the thives!!

[GreekSlav]

Originally Posted by Slayer

So who are the Modern Greeks and who are the modern Skopiani in your own words GrekSlav?

They are Greeks and Macedonians, of course.

[GreekSlav]

...fools like Dhmou...

Ahh, another outspoken Greek given a negative label by an ultranationalist. Very predictable of you.

You can not stand the fact that Dimou and other outspoken Greeks SPEAK what ultranationalists do not want to hear. Freedom of speech would never die. There will be more and more Greeks finding their true Greekness and speaking out.