US Embassy denies any secret plans

[Truth Bearer]

US Embassy denies any secret plans, Athens muted on Resolution

US Embassy denies any secret plans, Athens muted on Resolution
The US Embassy denied having any secret plans for resolving the 17 year old dispute. "We wish both Macedonia and Greece would reach a mutual solution.

The only question is whether the two countries are ready for a compromise?" said US Ambassador Milovanovic adding that the US Government has no intention of changing its policy towards Fyrom.

The US Ambassador gave yet another reason for FYROM not to yield to Greece. Truthfully, FYROM has 124 reasons not to yield to Greece.

The Greek Government via local media outlets also denied having knowledge of a secret plan. Athens media cited a high ranking diplomat within Government who said transferring the name negotiations to the UN would be disastrous for Greece, as there are 120+ countries seated there that have already recognized the country as ‘Macedonia‘.

This afternoon something else happened, something the Aegean Fyromians have waited for over half a century. The Fyromian Parliament, after sixty years, adopted a resolution with which oblige itself to help Aegean Fyromian refugees expelled from Greece. Prime Minister Gruevski early in his election campaign made a promise to the Aegean Fyromians, and once again, delivered on his promise.
The resolution was supported by all parties in Parliament.

Two MP’s asked to speak regarding the resolution.
Ilija Dimovski of the VMRO DPMNE party issued a statement from the podium: -The tragedy of the Aegean Fyromians is not only a tragedy for the Aegeans. It is a tragedy for all Fyromians worldwide. We can’t sit here and pretend it didn’t happen. It did. We must do something about it, and we will. I am proud that I am a member of this Parliament that brought about this resolution, after sixty years. By tackling this tragedy we will show that we can go beyond Balkan stereotypes. Protection of the most basic human rights for the Fyromians in the Balkans doesn’t mean sacrificing good relations with neighbors, on contrary, we have always strived for good relations with all of our neighbors, and will continue to do so in the future.

Slavica Grkovska Loshkova, member of the SDSM party was the second MP to issue a statement, saying FYROM must take care of its fellow Fyromians not just in the Balkans, but everywhere.

Members of the Fyromian organization Vinozito were present in Parliament and rejoiced when the resolution was unanimously passed.

Anastasios Parizos of “Vinozhito” issued a short statement: “Now we can hope that Greece will start listening and behaving like a modern European country, with European values”.


The president of the Aegean Fyromian Association “Children refugees”, Gjorgji Donevski, also issued a statement: “We have waited for this day for sixty years. This is a major step for us in obtaining our rights that were taken away from us.”


Fyromia’s President B.C. used the resolution to launch an attack against Gruevski for failing to solve the “Macedonia - Greece name dispute”.


Gruevski with a doze of irony reminded Crvenkovski that he has been in Fyromia’s Government for the past 17 years as Prime Minister and President and hasn’t solved the problem.
Gruevski then added “You can all blame me. I will accept the blame for the failure of numerous Fyromian and Greek Governments that have failed to resolve the dispute since 1991”.

PM Gruevski is in office less than 2 years.

The Greek Government received the Parliament resolution on the Aegean Fyromians with muted shock and dismay. For a long time Greece had hoped that no Yugoslavian or Fyromian Government would touch the subject, and they didn’t, all in the name of ‘good relations‘. Only few dozen wealthy Fyromians were able to fight the Greek Government in Court and win(when??).

With the resolution, thousands of Fyromians who couldn’t afford and or organize launching a lawsuit in Court vs Greece, will now be represented and helped by the Government.
The Government in Skopje for few months now has quietly worked on gathering information, dispatching a team to Istanbul and Ankara to obtain documents from the vast Turkish (Ottoman) Archives that contain complete property deeds on every house in the Balkans, from 1300’s to 1800’s.
Turkey has more information on Greece, than Greece has on Greece. However, this is true with every Balkan country as all of the Balkans was under Turkish rule. When the Ottomans left the Balkans, with them took all documentation, thus creating, by far the largest Historical Archives on land and properties.
The reason teams were dispatched to Ankara was so Fyromian families can prove the property was in their possession not just in the 1900’s, rather generations before. Most families have land and property deeds from the Greek Government, now will have from the Turkish as well.

The European Commission held a session on Aegean Fyromians last year. On that particular session Greece was urged to change or revoke discriminatory laws passed in 1982 and 1985 which strictly forbid someone who isn’t of Greek ethnicity to return or claim property. The law had been created for and aimed at banning Fyromians.

Greek intellectuals and University Professors have warned their Government as recently as last week to ‘rethink’ their policy of not allowing Aegean Fyromians to visit Greece and in particular to rethink their policy regarding confiscated properties.
Panteion University Professor Alexis Heraclides calls Greek Government expulsion of Slavo Macedonians as “black history” and the confiscation of properties as the worst thing Greece has ever done.
“You can’t just take someone’s house and evict them forever. This was done without any Court proceedings. People were simply rounded up and kicked out from their homes, later not allowed to return.” says Heraclides.
He further explains that the present Greek Government should stop the mass hysteria simply because it is not helpful in resolving any open questions, adding Greece has ratted itself out, as the one who panics is always the one at fault.
Professor Heraclides says presently the Government has zero chance to win any court case Slav Macedonians would bring about, adding after everything is said and done Greece will be labeled as a black sheep in Europe, apart from being forced to pay a settlement that would fetch easily into the billions.
Heraclides isn’t alone in his opinion regarding Fyromia and Greece. More Greek intellectuals have said Greece can’t hide from its past, rather should quickly fix things before the case gets to Court, because then it would be too late.

Greek Government isn’t commenting on the views of Greek intellectuals, while local Media viewed the Fyromian Parliament resolution as another ’provocation’.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3091/45/

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by Truth Bearer

US Embassy denies any secret plans, Athens muted on Resolution

...

Crap crap and more crap.

In reality the "plan" was leaked by no other than Sam Vaknin. As far as I know, he does not work for any Greek newspapers.

The properties issue is DEAD just as the issue of the properties of the Sudeten minority in former Checoslovakia. Read the BENES decrees on the internet. If the Greek government was bound to lose those properties, then those folks would have brought their case in the courts much earlier. They know that the treaties about the refugees' rights that all of the European countries signed took place after the expulsion of those people (the Sudeten, the Chams, the "Ejeski" and many others) and there is no chance that ANY court shall accept any of those cases. If they lose their cases in the Greek courts, they have very few chances to win in any international courts...

[Truth Bearer]

Petros it's called MYTHOLOGY and sadly for them they believe this illusion......What a load of krok about titles during the Ottoman era?!!!As if the Turks had any form of idea in the first place........

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by Truth Bearer

Petros it's called MYTHOLOGY and sadly for them they believe this illusion......What a load of krok about titles during the Ottoman era?!!!As if the Turks had any form of idea in the first place........

They are overblowing the facts with crap. Take the Heraclides' statements for example:

Maknuts version of the story:

"Panteion University Professor Alexis Heraclides calls Greek Government expulsion of *********** as “black history” and the confiscation of properties as the worst thing Greece has ever done.
“You can’t just take someone’s house and evict them forever. This was done without any Court proceedings. People were simply rounded up and kicked out from their homes, later not allowed to return.” says Heraclides.
He further explains that the present Greek Government should stop the mass hysteria simply because it is not helpful in resolving any open questions, adding Greece has ratted itself out, as the one who panics is always the one at fault.
Professor Heraclides says presently the Government has zero chance to win any court case *********** would bring about, adding after everything is said and done Greece will be labeled as a black sheep in Europe, apart from being forced to pay a settlement that would fetch easily into the billions.
Heraclides isn’t alone in his opinion regarding ********* and Greece. More Greek intellectuals have said Greece can’t hide from its past, rather should quickly fix things before the case gets to Court, because then it would be too late."

REAL STATEMENTS OF HERACLIDES:

"According to the Greek university professor, it is a fact that the property of ********** population in the period 1949-1950 was confiscated, even without court orders.

Greece allowed a big mistake to be made with the seized property of "Slavo***********" and if this issue is brought before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, it will have to pay damages, professor Heraclides assesses.

According to him, Greece should "stop shoving its head in sand" and claim that "Slavo***********" don't exist, because their number is around 30-40 thousand.

Some of them, according to Heraclides, have ********** "ethnic" self-determination, while others have integrated fully into the Greek ethnos, because of which "there is no danger for the Greece's territorial integrity".

The professor suggests Greek authorities to have new, realistic position in the negotiations with ********* on the name differences.

According to him, the issue should be solved by Greece's acceptance of compound name (such as New Macedonia, Upper Macedonia or North Macedonia), which would be used by Skopje for bilateral communication with Athens only, but not for international use."

Differences:

Heraclides does not mention that what Greece did to those folks was "the worst that Greece has ever done". Every reasonable historian would point out that the Greco-Turkish war was by far the worst mistake of the Greek state, and not just because of its' consequences to the Greeks.

Heraclides does not mention that the Greek state is in panic, neither that the one who panics is always the one at fault. As for who is in panic, compare the Karamanlis-Papandreou clash over the issue against the Gruevski-Cervenkovski clash on the issue. Check who is issuing death threats against who for this issue...

Heraclides does not mention that the Greek state has zero chance of winning any court case, nor that it would fetch easily into billions! He acknowledges that Greece will have to pay damages, but does not mention how much money and in how many cases, or if it has a chance to win or not any of those cases.

Heraclides does not mention that Greece shall become the black sheep of Europe.

In other words, although Heraclides is very close to their positions, he does certainly not gone mad as they are. Unfortunately - for them - the confiscation of properties of the Sudeten minority in the Czech and Slovak republics was not accomplished via court orders, but via the BENES DECREES, and Europe has accepted those Benes Decress the same way it has accepted the Greek decrees of expelling the Chams and the "Ejeski"...

...And thus, the European courts shall NOT EVEN CONSIDER any case prior to Greeces' signing any decision for refugee rights...

[Truth Bearer]

Bravo Petros at last some truth to their lies......

[akritas]

No secret plans....

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by akritas

No secret plans....

As if we give a damn about what the U.S.American politicians say. We saw their pressure in Bucharest... And their stupidity in Georgia...

P.S.

Did anybody hear Obamas' final speech in Denver. They say it was awesome. They also say that you don't fight Russia by straining your relations with the other members of your oldest military alliance...

...This must have hurt Gruevski very much...

...But did Obama say such a thing? Does anybody have a transcript of his speech?

[Astoria]

Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis

Did anybody hear Obamas' final speech in Denver. They say it was awesome. They also say that you don't fight Russia by straining your relations with the other members of your oldest military alliance...

...This must have hurt Gruevski very much...

...But did Obama say such a thing? Does anybody have a transcript of his speech?

Obamas speach was legendary in my opinion. Reminded me of a symphony.
Video of his 45 minute speach should be uploaded in youtube or google soon.

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by Truth Bearer

The Government in Skopje for few months now has quietly worked on gathering information, dispatching a team to Istanbul and Ankara to obtain documents from the vast Turkish (Ottoman) Archives that contain complete property deeds on every house in the Balkans, from 1300’s to 1800’s.[/b]
Turkey has more information on Greece, than Greece has on Greece. However, this is true with every Balkan country as all of the Balkans was under Turkish rule. When the Ottomans left the Balkans, with them took all documentation, thus creating, by far the largest Historical Archives on land and properties.

E re malakia pou tous varai katakefala aftous tous anthropous!!!Hadn't the Ottomans in 1400 any other more serious concern than maintaining archives where they registered uncle-Zdrafko's cabin and dedo-Stoichko's corral???

[Pan]

Why go to Tourkia? They only need to search the church records from the area to prove if they ever existed there. or have their buddies been cooking something up for them!