Yani Makraduli from SDSM chosen for Assembly's Vice-President

[Greek-Cowboy]

What an interesting article.. Thank you

[ZZm]

Originally Posted by kzk842

Thank you Wasilj,ZZm for your answers.
I just wanted to know to which tribe of Vlachs do they belong(if there was any site of those organizations).
By the way a good example are the Saracatsans(Karakachans) of Bulgaria that a few years after the fall of communism they declare as Greeks,there are at least 20 organizations of Saracatsans in Bulgaria and almost everyone of them have changed names(-ova -of).
See what is their site first phrase: "Karakachans are part of the Greek nation."
http://www.karakachani.com/en/index.php

This got to my intention.
Is Karakachanov the leader of VMRO BND or whatever a part of this community or has his roots from them?

He and his party are proclaimers of the "bulgarian" character of the Macedonians and Macedonia.

[kzk842]

I dont know my friend...
The facts that i know is that Sarakatsans from Bulgaria(at least 20 organizations) say that Saracatsans are part of the Greek nation,i also know that Sarakatsans in Greece dont accept the characterization Vlach for them,i 've heard myself a Sarakatsan saying "We have no Vlach origin at all,we never spoke another language than Greek".

[Entopi Makedonas]

Originally Posted by kzk842

I just wanted to know to which tribe of Vlachs do they belong(if there was any site of those organizations).

Hello everyone, I am new in this forum but I saw the discussion and the subject is very interesting. In the Republic of Macedonia there are about 10 000 people that declare their Vlach origin:

They are concentrated in four areas: Pelagonia, Shtip (Astibo), Kumanovo and Gevgelia.

1) The Pelagonian Vlachs are devided in two subgroups: Krushevo Vlachs and Bitola Vlachs. The Krushevo Vlachs and the Bitola Vlachs were under a very strong Greek influence until the end of XIX century. After the schism wich resulted with the creation of a new Ortodox Christian entity in Turkey - The Bulgarian Exarchate, a small part of the Krushevo Vlachs became adherents of the Exarchate. While the Bitola Vlachs remained 100% under the Greek Patriarchate. But after in the beginning of the XX century the Romanians state also started separating part of the country's budget for propaganda. Soon until 1905 3 Vlach churches were opened in Krushevo and Bitola. A lot of money were given by the Romanian consul in Bitola to Vlach children so they can go and finish their studies in Romania. Identically like the church struggles between Slavic-speaking Macedonians (the pro-Greek, Pro-Bulgarian and Pro-Serbian party), the Vlachs also started quarrellings between themselves (pro-Greek and pro-Romanian party).

Unlike The Krushevo and bitola Vlachs that speal a proto-Roman language, there are also a villages in Pelagonia called Magarevo which is populated with Karakachans. They are Vlachs that every year from the beginning of the XVIII were going from Macedonia to Thesally in order to feed their sheep and goats. Soon they have learned the Greek language as their mother thong, but still their culture is Vlach. I know for shore that among the Karakachani population that lives in 3 villages in Pelagonia there are groups that consider themselves as Greeks and have contacts with the Greek consulate in Bitola.

The Krushevo and Bitola Vlachs were fighting each other because they were caught between The Balkan monarchies that were fighting over domination in Macedonia (Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia and in smaller portion though the Vlachs - Romania). This ended in 1913 when the Serbian authorities banned Romanian, Bulgarian and Greek schools and introduced only Serbian as a church and school language. This period lasted until 1944 when the whole of Vardar Macedonia was in the hands of the Macedonian communist partisans. The first objective of the communists was to provide the minorities with education on their mother thong. Since the Vlach people at that time considered themselves as simply "Vlachs" (neither, Greeks, Serbians nor Romanians), their language was codified. 2 Macedonian and 1 linguist of Vlach origin in 1950 made a codification of the modern Valch langauge, taking the Bitola dialect as a central stream. The government started publishing books in the Vlach langauge, newspapers, and annual folk festivals were organized. Today the majority of the Vlach population in Macedonia has its Vlach identity and they consider the Republic of Macedonia as their mother state, because only in R.Macedonia they can study their own language and freely say that they are Vlachs.

2) The Kumanovo Vlachs have never had a real national identity, they used the word Vlach as a social category. The first national identity that was imposed to them was the Serbian one in the beginning of the XX century. Soon they became the biggest Serbians in the district. In fact the first agents of the Serbian cause in Skopje and Kumanovo were the Vlach community living i these two cities. After WWII and the codification of the Macedonian Vlach language, 100% of them feel as Vlachs. Also Romania is often visiting the Kumanovo Vlach villages and giving them scholarships for studying in Romania.

3) The Shtip Vlachs were developing identically as those in Kumanovo that were far from the reach of the Greek church and schools. From 1912 till 1940 they were under Serbian influence and collaborated with the Serbian authorities. After WWII till now, the majority of the Shtip (Astibo) Vlach population was peacefully assimilated into the Macedonian ethnicity surrounding their villages and today they consider them selfs as Macedonians by ethnicity.

4) The Gevgelia vlachs have also been under strong Greek influence, but in the beginning of the XX century a lot of them became adherents to the Romanian propaganda, because the language is very close to Romanian and they could express their "Vlachness" through it. This changed after the Serbians prohibited the Greek and Romanian churches and schools. After the Macedonian communist took power after 1940 and gave the Vlachs the right of self-determination, now they openly express their Vlach language which in R.Macedonia is included in the primary and high schools and Vlach identity.

During my master studies I made an essay about the Vlachs in R.Macedonia, so this is in general what I can recall. I hope it was helpful.

[yannis-3]

Article about the Sarakatsans of FYROM

http://northmacedonians.blogspot.com...g-post_11.html


and this is the organization of the Sarakatsans with origin from FYROM

http://www.bignet.gr/st/index.shtml

[Entopi Makedonas]

Why isn't my post visible?

[Truth Bearer]

You need to post more posts ntopie...

[Entopi Makedonas]

Originally Posted by Truth Bearer

You need to post more posts ntopie...

I wrote a very long informative post about the Vlachs. So my post will not be visible? What should I do so it will be visible?

[Truth Bearer]

just keep posting anything and then after 10 or 15 odd posts it will click over entopi fyromian.

[Foti66]

I think after your tenth post or so you should be able to move freely. Don't fret, it is a security precaution for spammers. Welcome to the forum.