The "proofs" of Skopjans for their so-called "Macedonian Nation" - Come and laugh!!!

[Ptolemy]

From their propagandistic site: history of macedonia.org/ Concise Macedonia/ Documents

586 A.D. >From the "Miracles of St. Demetrius of Salonika, I ": "...For if one was to imagine them in a heap, not only the Macedonians gathered in

Salonika... Certainly he who inspired the Macedonians with courage..."

Mirac. I, 13, p.1285-14; 1313

It seems we have passages deliberately taken out of the context. Anyway the word "Macedonians" refers to the greek inhabitants of Macedonia who at that time fought against the Slavs whose descendants nowadays are the Skopjans and certainly isnt an ethnic term but rather a regional.

758-759 A.D. >From the Chronographia of Theophanes the Confessor "That year Constantine plundered the Sclavinii throughout Macedonia and subjugated the rest." Theoph., I, p.430, 21-22.

This passage actually works against the propagandists of FYROM and exposes them. If they were a macedonian nation, wouldnt the text be "that year Constantine plundered the Macedonians" and not the "Sklavinii"??? Here we have a clear distinction between "Sklavinii" and "Macedonians".

8th Century >From Strabonos Epithomatus: "And now, in that way almost all of Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia have also been settled by the Skiti-Slavs." C. Muller, Geographi graeci minores, Paris 1882, p.574.

These Skiti-Slavs are probably a mix of Slavo-Bulgarians. As much as the propagandists of FYROM insisted that there was no admixture between Bulgars and Slavs they refute themselves with their own sources. The authors of that time referred to the Bulgars as sciti (Scythians) because they came from the land the ancient Scythians had originally inhabited (the regions north of the Black Sea).

Whats interesting here is the following passage destroying the fantasies of Skopjans. Enjoy it Skops.

Constantine Poryphorgenitus

De Administrando Imperio

"“The Slavs of the province of Peloponessus revolted in the days of the emperor Theophilus and his son Michael, and became independent, and plundered and enslaved and pillaged and burnt and stole. And in the reign of Michael, the son of Theophilus, the protospatharius Theoctistus, surnamed Bryennius, was sent as military governor to the province of Peloponnesus with a great power and force, vis., of Thracians and Macedonians and the rest of the western provinces, to war upon and subdue them. He subdued and mastered all the Slavs and other insubordinates of the province of Peloponnesus….”

what did he wrote?? Macedonians being used to supress and subdued the Slavs??? My poor skops again your fairy tales exposed. Macedonians was a regional name for Byzantine greeks who...were used to slaughter your own kind.

821-823 A.D. >From the letter of Michael II to the honorable Ludwig:
"Thomas...having gathered our barges and dromon, had the opportunity to arrive in (some) parts of Thrace and Macedonia." Mansi, Michaelis Belbi et
Theophilii....Florentinae, 1759

Obviously to anyone Macedonia is here is the Byzantine theme of Macedonia as in the quote before Peloponnesus was the theme of Peloponnesus and not a...nation. This passage, as evidence to a "macedonian nation" is evidence only that the one who used it as "proof" must sue his brain for non-support asap.

904 >From On the Capture of Salonika by John Cametinae: "...I introduce you to the same, the great and the first city of the Macedonians..." J.K. Begunov, Kozma Prezviter v slavjanskih literaturah, Sofia 1976, p. 297

Actually the name is Ioannis Cameniatis and he is certainly greek. Btw poor skopjans every quote you use is mentioning Salonica or Thessalonike, i didnt read anywhere sth like Solun. Again the name "macedonians" refers to the Byzantine Greek inhabitants...the same who were used to suppress your slavic ancestors.

First half of 10th C. >From On the Themes by Constantine Porphyrogenitus: "... So from a kingdom Macedonia turned into a province and now it has reached the position of a theme and strategy." C. Porfirogenito, De thematibus, Citta del Vaticano, 1952.

Where the heck does this passage shows a "macedonian nation"??? Whatever drugs you are into you must cut it. Everyone knew there was an ancient Macedonian kingdom, which its kings and soldiers spread everywhere greek language and culture.

986 >From the History of Leo the Deacon: "...since they robbed the region of the Macedonians mercilessly, destroying all adults.". Leonis Diaconi

Historiae, Paris 1864, p. 311.

Again passages out of context. The text refers to the Byzantine greeks inhabitants of Macedonian who were robbed by...your brethens Bulgarians of your so called "Macedonian" Samuil. Again another proof you keep refuting yourselves post by post.

1041 >From the Annals of Bari: "...he had already written to Sicily from where the unfortunate Macedonians, Paulicians and Calbrians arrived." G.H. Pertz, Annales Barenses, Monumenta Germaniae historica, Scriptores V, p.53.

Same as above. Macedonians are the Byzantine Greek inhabitants of the theme Macedonia.

1064 >From the Chronicle of John Zonaras: "The Uzians...invaded Macedonia and plundered it, and reached Hellada". Ioannis Zonorae Epitomae

historiarum, Vol. VIII, Ed. Th. Buttner-Wobst, Bonnae 1897, p.678.

My poor skops nobody denied the existence of a region called Macedonia. Again nothing related to a Macedonian nation.

1072-1073 >From the History of Necephorus Vryenius: "...for the Scythians were carrying out sudden attacks in Thrace and Macedonia." Nicephori Bryenii commentarii, Ed. A. Meicke, Bonnae 1836, p.100, 102.

Same as above. Since i notice the genius who collected these quotes as a supposedly "proof" of sth, if Scythians attacked the theme of Peloponnesus this doesnt mean, Peloponnesians were...a nation for christ sake.

1083-1085 >From De expeditione Yerosolymitana by Radulfo Cadonis:

"...Beomund Guiscard sailed across the Adriatic and occupied Macedonia."

Tancredi in expeditione Yerosolymitana ....Paris, 1854, p.499.

so???? to occupy a theme how is it a proof of anything??

c. 1106 >From the letter of Theophylactes of Ohrid to Gregorius Camaterus:
"...do not retain such a man in the narrow regions of our Macedonia...".
Theophylacti, col. 496, B-C.

So? Theophylactos of Ohrid was a Byzantine Greek as his name clearly shows and the same exists with Gregorius Camateros. therefore "Our Macedonia" refers to the Byzantine Greek Macedonia.

Beginning of 12th C. >From the Byzantine satire Timarion: "The day of Saint Demetrius in (Salonika) is as great a festival as the Panathinei in Athens or Panionii in Miletus; it is a grand Macedonian celebration in which not only the Macedonian people gather, but people of all sorts and from all

directions: Greeks from different regions of Hellada, the Mizian tribes...". Vizantiiski Vremenik, Moscow VI 1953, p. 367.

Another tragic mistake of the skops. Mizians was another name of Bulgarians (your kindred). Therefore we have a clear distinction between Macedonians and Bulgarians. Note also that it says "Greeks from different regions of Hellada". why doesnt it makes a dinstiction for "Greeks of Macedonia" if they are different?? Simply because the writer knows that by Macedonians he means the Greek population of Macedonia.

1185 "Woe, woe, the city of Salonika is captured, I say, the metropolis of the Macedonians." Ephraimi Chronologici caesares; Ed. J.P. Migne - PG 143 , Paris 1891, p.198.

Its almost at the time of the Latin capture of the city where in other texts the Latins clearly say that the inhabitants of Salonica are greeks.

Beginning of 13th C. >From the synod records of the Ohrid Archibishopric: "Ioannis Ierakar by birth Macedonian". J. Pitra, Analacta sacra et classica specilegio Solesmensi parta, t. VI Juris ecclesiastici graecorum selecta paralipomena. Parissis et Romae 1891, col. 315.

So? a clear Byzantine greek person who admits his origin as a person from Crete would say "by birth Cretan".

II 1246 Ser was one a large city, but the Bulgarian Ivan had demolished when besieging it and other Macedonian cities. Georgii Acropolitae Opera, Recensuit A. Haisenberg vol. I, Lipsiae 1903, p.74-75, 77

Again is there a point that we must notice??? Except the constant distinction of your brethen Bulgarians and the Byzantine Greek inhabitants of Macedonia?? Actually it is known by everybody that Ivan Assen II conquered the city of Serres from Greeks.

1282-1321 ...that king's alliance is certain and unanswering, just as long as he can settle near to Macedonia. While he was spending his time on these (matters), the protostrator Theodore Sinadinus, once freed from the West, arrived in Byzantium. He governed Prilep, the neighbouring regions and the lower Macedonian towns. Ioan Cantacuzeni Historiarum libri IV, Ed.

J.P.Migne - PG Paris 1866, p.94

Again no "proof" about anything. All i read everywhere is Byzantine Greek names.

1326 ...I beleive you know that Strimon...is the largest of all those that biscet Thrace and Macedonia... Nicephore Gregoras, Correspondence. Paris 1927, p.30-50.

and?

Middle 14th C. ...Stefan became king of the Tribals. After he had set off from the region of the Ionian Sea, he razed Epidamnus to the ground, went into Macedonia and made Skopje the capital... The king left the city of Skopje, taking with him men experienced in battle and a strong army and subordinated to his rule the places in the vicinity of Kastoria. Then having moved camp, he subjugated all of Macedonia, except for Terma... Laonici Chalcocondiae Historiarum. Ed. J. P. Migne - PG t.CLIX (Paris, 1866) col. 36, B-37, C.

why dont you poor skops write ALL the text and not picking passages out of context??? could it be that the missing part could prove the opposite of what you wanted??? btw once again where exactly should we watch over for the so-called "Macedonian nation" here?

1349 (Code of) the honorable and Christ-loving Macedonian Tsar Stefan, Serbian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Dalmation, Arbanasian, Hungarian Wallachian and indipendent ruler of many other regions and lands... Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949).

Excuse me but..how much more stupid can someobe be to provide as unbiased source a Serb??? What else i am gonna read here?? not that the text proves anything anyway, as it clearly says "ruler of many other regions", regions like Macedonia. So is it now the time for you

Middle of the 14th C. A Slav inscription from the church of St. George at Upper Kozjak in which a man called Bratan signs himself as being from

Macedonia. Z. Rosolkovska-Nikolovska, Crkvata Sv. Georgi vo Goren Kozjak vo svetlinata na novite ispituvanja - Zbornik "Kiril Solunski", Kn. I, Skopje,

MANU 1970, p. 222.

Being from Macedonia as many bulgarians did in the time? So if i bring you an inscription of a Byzantine greek of that time who was from the Macedonia region would you accept that Macedonia was greek?

15th C. I remember the great subordination under which the Turk holds the emperor in Constantinople and all the Greeks, Macedonians and Bulgarians....As I said earlier, there are many Christians who are forced to serve the Turk, such as Greeks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Albanians, Esclavinians, Rasians and Serbians... Bertrand de la Brocuiere, Putovanje preko mora, Beograd 1950, p.134-135, 140-141.

isnt he the writer who wrote for Plovdiv the following???
"Phillipopolis [the old name of Plovdiv, given by Philip II of Macedonia (362 -336 B.C.)] - the main city of Macedonia". His Macedonia is roughly between the Rhodope mountains to the South, the Tundja river to the East, the Balkan mountains to the North and the Trajanovi Vrata pass near Ihtiman separates it from "Bulgaria". Obviously this de la Broquiere character uses archaic geographic names. Macedonia was the name of the region he describes in the 8th - 12th centuries. His Bulgaria is the same Bulgaria that the historians of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Crusades described. Esclavinians is an old name of the South Slavs as a whole used in the 6th - 8th centuries. Rasians is the old name of the Serbs. As we see, nowhere can be found traces of a Slavic Macedonian ethnos within the borders of today's Macedonia in this text.

III

1461-1462 (?) When the enemy forces are battered, no one doubts that the whole of Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, Greece or Attica and the Peloponnese will return to the faithful....Inspired by this example the Thessalians, the Greeks, the Poloponnesians, the Epirans and the Macedonians will all rebel and will win ... Jovan Radonic, Gjurac Kastriot Skenderbeg i Arbanija u XV veku - Spomenik XCV (1942), p. 128-129.

All these are regional names. As there is no Thessalian or Peloponnesian nation the same exists with Macedonia. All these are simply...regional. Wake up skops.

to be continued...

[akritas]

Very good research Perseas.
I think that we must contribute all these answers in the net.But us usual the Skopjans wiil disappered in theirs nationalistic hole!!!

[Ptolemy]

Note that previous to mid-19th century, skops cant find even one quote that can be considered even as questionable (talking about "proof" with these miserable quotes they found, sounds like a complete joke anyway). All they do is taking passages out of contexts containing the word "Macedonia" and its derivatives without again being able to prove the slightest. Note even the length of the quotes prior to 19th century - which are hardly more than one sentence - and afterwards. These guys are really pitiful. No surprise they are the laughing stock of forums.

[Ptolemy]

Ok i posted it in the medieval section as well but its an useful addition to the above.

"...the leader of the Avars... regarding the metropolis of the
Thessalonians as the richest of all cities in the direction
of Thrace and of all Illyricum,... mustered all who shared
the faith and savage race of the Sklaveni... and along with
other barbarians... ordered the expedition against the
heavenly-guarded city of Thessaloniki... <13.109>
...and the barbarians arrived... and the number of besiegers
was far greater not only of all the Macedonians but also of
the Thessalians and Achaians (were one to gather them all as
a heap in Thessaloniki)... <13.116>
...and the best elements of the troops of the city, along
with the prefect,... were in the country of the Hellenes on
public business... <13.117>
Yet, the few defenders, with the help of God, came out of the
city-gate... <14.135>
But... who could carry such a level of devastation? Clearly
the one who instilled this bravery into the Macedonians, for
nothing can resist the Divine... <14.136>
Afterwards the citizens dispatched the cavalry that confirmed
the departure of the terrified enemies who continued to flee
during the night to increase their distance, with no concern
for their items, animals and slaves... And I am told that...
the barbarians blinded by a light... had seen a vision of our
most glorious... St.Dimitrios leading the troops... " <14.148>

<Patrologia Graecae, vol.116>

Here there is a clear distinction between Macedonians and the barbarians Sklaveni (slavs). Furthermore inside Thessaloniki, except Macedonians there were other Greeks as well like Thessalians and Achaians. Of course the propagandists of FYROM missed all that.

In addition the original greek text that Skopjans translated and transformed to their own need is the following:

"Toutw tw etei Kwvstavtivos tas kata Makedoviav Sklabivias nxmalwteuseuv, kai tous loipous ypoxeirious epoinsev..."
-Patrologia Graecae, vol.108: Theophanis, p.868.a

the greek word "kata" isnt the same with "throughout" the skops used. Kata shows direction, meaning the "sklaveni who were in the direction of Macedonia".

From Chronographia Theofanous we have:

"In 811, ...[The Bulgarian chan] Krum now sought for peace... but the emperor entered Bulgaria... and was killed by the barbarians. This
great disaster fell upon the Christians on July the 25th... Krum
severed the head of the dead Nikiforos and hang it on a log... After
that he silver-lined the skull and used it as a drinking cup in order
to show-off to the chieftains of the Sklaveni..." <414-416>

Another quote showing that Bulgars had mixed with Sklaveni.

"In 812, ...emperor Michael I [Rangabe] came against the Bulgarians... When the Bulgarians heard of the revolt [against the emperor] they took courage and bullied Thrace and MACEDONIA. The Christians left the cities of Anghialos and Berroia - although no one pressed them to do that - ...and sought refuge... inside fortresses. The new settlers of Philippoupolis, Philippoi and Strymon left for their lands..." <420>

So again it is mentioned there were Christians in these cities (Byzantine Greeks) and the reference is clear that Bulgarians were invaders and finally left for their lands.

In 813, ...chan Krum asked for peace... and a confirmation of his rule
over Bulgaria and Thrace up to the Mileones. ...but then came the news
that he stormed the city of Mesimbria... The imperial armies led by the
general of the East Leon and the general of MACEDONIA Ioannis (the so-called) Aplakis... met him at Bersinikia, but were prevented by the emperor and his advisors... After their defeat near Andrianoupolis...
the emperor resigned his office to the general of the East Leon [V the
Armenian]... Krum marched all the way to the very walls of the
Queen-of-Cities [Constantinople]..." <421-427>

So, the general of Macedonia is a Byzantine Greek (Ioannis Aplakis).

From the History of Nikitas Choniatis we have:

...and he (the Westerner) is full of hate towards the Hellene, ----, more than the serpent- this ancient enemy of mankind..., to the
degree that it is preferable to encounter the latter in Paradise |
than the awful Latins... And the citizens of Thessaloniki ----'
suffered terribly by them."

Nikitas Choniatis (in 1205-1210?).
"History": 301-302

Clearly the citizens of Thessaloniki as HELLENES suffered from the hateful Latins.

From Chrestomathia we have :

"Many [old Balkan] nations have eclipsed... Today
not even the name of the Macedonians or the
Thracians exists."

<Chrestomathia VII.37>

Here is a clear reference to the ancient Macedonians whom their name has been eclipsed since they have been assimilated in the rest of the greek population. The name "macedonians" is only regional anymore and not ethnic as we learn from Chrestomathia. Poor skops, it is becoming a nightmare for you

From Monumenta Germaniae Historica we have:

"...the districts are of Thrace, Macedonia, Thessaloniki and the neighboring Sklavenies."

<Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Legum Sectio III, Concilia 2.2, p.476, lines 10-11.>

Wait a min. Do we have here a clear distinction between Macedonia (including theme of Thessaloniki) and the "neighboring Sklavenies"????

Poor skops...again its obvious that your slavic ancestors are different from the inhabitants of Macedonia who again are Byzantine greeks.

Again from Patrologiae Graecae we have:

"The [administrative] Theme of Macedonia:
The region is called `Macedonia' after Makedon - the son
of Zeus and Thyia [the sister of Hellen, the eponymous
ancestor of the Hellenes]... as Hesiod attests. ...or
he [Makedon] descends from Aiolos [the son of Hellen] as
Hellanikos says... Starting with the third son of Herakles, the [institution of] kingship lasted among the Macedonians... down to
Perseus's defeat by the Romans [168-146 BCE].
Thus... in all formality the entity ceased to be a kingdom
and was transformed into a province, and today it has become
a theme and military command. The [early Roman] province,
[was] run by a consul...

<Patrologiae Graecae, vol.113; On Themes: 22-23>

or

"The [so-called] theme of Strymon is connected with Macedonia
and it is not really an administrative theme but must be
understood as a `kleisoura' [i.e. a lesser organization,
something like a military base, a security-district], and
Skythians -not Macedonians- `graze on' it; it was emperor
Justinianus II Rinotmitos [685-695 and 705-711] who brought
them to guard the check-points on the mountain-passages.
Thessaloniki is a theme, and it is most certainly a part of
Macedonia...

<Patrologiae Graecae, vol.113; On Themes: 23>

Interesting to know that some Scythians [probably the Bulgarians) are non-Macedonians.

"...and emperor Basileios II was eager to confront the Moesians... for they were storming the Roman [i.e. imperial] country-side, and looted the properties of the Macedonians, destroying/killing all adults. ...So he advanced to Sardiki... and the troops set a camp... They were casual and lazy... but the Moesiens setting a trap..."

<Leon Diakonos 10.8; or passage 171>

We already know from another topic Moesia had Slavs and bulgars. So my poor Skops your idiocy meets no limit. You used a source that says clearly Macedonians were different people and ofcourse enemies with your kind (slavs and Bulgars)

[Mygdonia]

Brilliantly done Perseas.

[answrspls]

THEY ALSO USE THESE

"Thessaloniki was big and very populated town which belonged to the macedonian nation" (Theodoret,The Church History, 5 c. A.D.)

St. Demetrius was "from significant and famous nation, descending from the ancient Macedonians" (Simeon Metafrast, 9 c. A.D.)

But to that what do you reply??????

[Truth Bearer]

Here we go..another confused soul.....So now we have St Demetrius as a Fyromian??

[Truth Bearer]

Originally Posted by answrspls

THEY ALSO USE THESE





But to that what do you reply??????

For starters can I ask you einstein when do you think St Dimitrius lived??Do you have any idea in what era he lived??

[answrspls]

i just said they they use this too.!

anyways didnt he live in the 4th century??

[Truth Bearer]

So then how can he be a Slav mate????