The Fyromians from Hunza are coming back home!.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

A bomb usually explodes after you throw it,and yeah that "wolf" was running from a cell phone,the "brave" guy,im sure he is a hero there.There's nothing brave in that action,where armed "special" troops, first are hitting the victim with a a signaling disc,then running like scared rabbitts,before even seeing if it was a granate or a cell phone.We know the rest,how the second after,your brave wolfs were killing two unarmed civilians from behind their armoured vehicle.
Btw ZZm those immages are from Tetova a "Fyromian" city,how many times have you been there since then...I for my part a lot of times.

What "Tetova" are you talking about Tiralb? The city is named Kalkandelen.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by ZZm

Do you realize that you are building evidence for my theory?
Interesting stuff really.
People who are not greeks to use greek language and enforce it. Greek was not their native language. They learned it from private teachers. Justinian I was proud of his latin descent but he spoke indifferent greek.

Justinian I was not Latin but Illyrian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justinian#Life

"Justinian, born in 482,[4] was a Latin-speaking[5] Illyrian[6][7] peasant from a small village called Tauresium..."

As a result, he could not possibly be proud of a Roman origin that he did not have.

So even Egypt who is much older than ancient Greece and their culture was one of the strongest was hellenized. So what is left for the "poor" macedonians who were the first neighbors of ancient Greece?

Not really. The Rosetta stone was written in both Greek and Egyptian, and the two Egyptian texts were above the Greek text. Coptic still survives as a language. The Egyptians were partially Hellenized because Alexander the Great conquered Egypt. Why was Macedonia Hellenized? Did a Greek army conquer Macedonia?

My point exactly.



So where this preaching of bulgarization is equal of macedonism?

For no logical person and brainwashed up mind maybe your stuff would work.

And you still did NOT answered my question!

Did the serbs and now bulgarians taught the population in ********* to be *********** through their schools and churches?

No, your movement was created as a reaction to the Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian educational systems. Still, it was weaker than any of the above until 1944.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by ZZm

Do you realize that you are building evidence for my theory?
Interesting stuff really.
People who are not greeks to use greek language and enforce it.

ZZm , we are talking about Byzantine era , aka post-Hellenistic !!!!!

If you wanna apply the"hellenization" theory to the Ancient Macedonians you have to answer me:

1) When & Which Hellenic city state started it ??

Be carefull what date you'll say because in Aiane , Macedonia we have found an inscription in LINEAR B (greek mycenaean writing) dating. And be carefull non to say Athens and the Ionian colonies in the macedonian coast ..since there are tones of evidence (names,months,Pella curse tablet) to say that the Macedonians spoke a northwestern greek dialect.

3) Comparison : Thrace !!

Thrace was colonized by Ionians also in 750 BC !!
The noble thracians started to hellenize themselves around 400 BC and the full hellenization of south Thrace occured around 250 BC ...500 YEARS !! after the Greek colonies and after Philip had vassalized the Thracian kingdoms. There is a 500 year latency period between the greek colonies and the mass hellenization.

All the Thracian cities that were builted before their Hellenization HAD THRACIAN NAMES (favorite endings -bria and -dama , which in Thracian language mean "city" and "settlement") ..after the hellenization you have the first greek city names in the new cities (example Lisimakheia of Lisimakhos). To make an example the city of Adrianople was the Thracian Uskudama ...it remained Uscudama until the roman Emperor Hadrian changed it to Adrianopolis.

Now ..where are the Macedonian toponyms that show an early non hellenic background ?????

Let me help you the oldest Macedonian city (beofre 600 BC) names are :
Lebaea (λέβης = water deposit , hence modern greek λέβητας) it was named like this because it was near the lake of Haliakmon.
Aigai ("goats") ...the first Temenid Capital
Aigidion = "little settlement of goats"
Berroea = knowing the macedonian substitution of φ to β ..it is simply Φέρροια
= φερειν ροή = incoming flux , simply because Berroea is at the entrance of Haliakmon in the Central Macedonian Plane.
Λείβηθρον = in Pieria ("canals of flux" in the "well chosen region" (Πῖαρ = top milk , well chosen)

Emathia (Ημαθία) = "sandy region" since homer uses many times ημαθόεν for "sandy".

Now Pieria and Emathia are mentioned by Homer 750 BC !!!
And we have the Linear B' inscription found in Aiane , dating 1300 BC !!!

..So I ask you when did the Macedonians got hellenized ????

[Truth Bearer]

Great point there Andrea bravo sou mate!

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by ZZm

Of course it will explode, if you take out the safety switch.
But interesting is that the "unarmed" "civilians" did not surrendered quietly. You must be up to something so you wont surrender when there is police armed to the teeth 3 meters from you!

So he throwed a bomb without taking out the safety catch,instead of a cell phone,oh now everything makes more sence. Btw that scene just shows with what kind of army UCK was dealing,not a big deal indeed.And they were FYROM-ian elite troops.

Actually I've never been in Tetovo, Gostivar, Kicevo, Bitola, Kavadarci, Prilep, Kocani, etc.
I don't have relatives or something.
I have friends that live in Tetovo or the surrounding villages, some of my friends study in Stulov faculty.
So whats your point you sad tragedy of a human being?

Don't take it personal ZZm, if you are not able to reply in an educated and calm manner then just avoid me.But i understand your irritation,you don't controll,rule ore even know your "own" country, you don't have a name, and your denial of your Bulgarian roots leaves you even without history.This is not only sad by tragic.

What "Tetova" are you talking about Tiralb? The city is named Kalkandelen.

Kalkandelen?!

[Truth Bearer]

Geez ZZmm I sense a lot of resentment to TirAlb why is this so mate??

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by Andrew

ZZm , we are talking about Byzantine era , aka post-Hellenistic !!!!!

If you wanna apply the"hellenization" theory to the Ancient Macedonians you have to answer me:

1) When & Which Hellenic city state started it ??

Be carefull what date you'll say because in Aiane , Macedonia we have found an inscription in LINEAR B (greek mycenaean writing) dating. And be carefull non to say Athens and the Ionian colonies in the macedonian coast ..since there are tones of evidence (names,months,Pella curse tablet) to say that the Macedonians spoke a northwestern greek dialect.

3) Comparison : Thrace !!

Thrace was colonized by Ionians also in 750 BC !!
The noble thracians started to hellenize themselves around 400 BC and the full hellenization of south Thrace occured around 250 BC ...500 YEARS !! after the Greek colonies and after Philip had vassalized the Thracian kingdoms. There is a 500 year latency period between the greek colonies and the mass hellenization.

All the Thracian cities that were builted before their Hellenization HAD THRACIAN NAMES (favorite endings -bria and -dama , which in Thracian language mean "city" and "settlement") ..after the hellenization you have the first greek city names in the new cities (example Lisimakheia of Lisimakhos). To make an example the city of Adrianople was the Thracian Uskudama ...it remained Uscudama until the roman Emperor Hadrian changed it to Adrianopolis.

Now ..where are the Macedonian toponyms that show an early non hellenic background ?????

Let me help you the oldest Macedonian city (beofre 600 BC) names are :
Lebaea (λέβης = water deposit , hence modern greek λέβητας) it was named like this because it was near the lake of Haliakmon.
Aigai ("goats") ...the first Temenid Capital
Aigidion = "little settlement of goats"
Berroea = knowing the macedonian substitution of φ to β ..it is simply Φέρροια
= φερειν ροή = incoming flux , simply because Berroea is at the entrance of Haliakmon in the Central Macedonian Plane.
Λείβηθρον = in Pieria ("canals of flux" in the "well chosen region" (Πῖαρ = top milk , well chosen)

Emathia (Ημαθία) = "sandy region" since homer uses many times ημαθόεν for "sandy".

Now Pieria and Emathia are mentioned by Homer 750 BC !!!
And we have the Linear B' inscription found in Aiane , dating 1300 BC !!!

..So I ask you when did the Macedonians got hellenized ????

You forgot also to mention,Andrew,that:
1)The archeologists have discovered a lot of inscriptions written in Thracian language (non-Greek) with Greek letters,whereas in Macedonia was never discovered an inscription written in any different language than Greek or Roman.
2)We have records from Byzantine authors,that till the 5th AD century,some isolated Thracian tribes spoke their own language.

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Kalkandelen?!

Didn't you know it?It was the Turkish name for Tetovo:

[gmellos]

Originally Posted by ZZm

You failed to understand.

I disregard whole history as inconclusive!

yes because it doesn't suit your nations dellusions!! YOU ONLY accept with suit's you and discard the rest!

[Tsontos]

Just having a look at the wikipedia page on the Hunza. Look at the page's bibliography:

* H. Sidky, "The Greek Kingdom of Bactria: From Alexander to Eucratides the Great", University Press of America, July 2000
* H. Sidky, "Alexander the Great, the Graeco-Bactrians, and Hunza: Greek Descents in Central Asia", Central Asiatic Journal
* Frank L. Holt, "Alexander the Great and Bactria: The Formation of a Greek Frontier in Central Asia (Mnemosyme, Bibliotheca Classica Batava, Supplementum Centisimum)", Brill Academic Publishers, May 1993

Macedoniaontheweb article: Pakistani Hunza delegation departs the FYR Macedonia