Karamanlis replies!

[Foti66]

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PM reply to Gruevski: There is no 'Macedonian minority'

Prime minister Costas Karamanlis' letter of reply to his FYROM counterpart Nicola Gruevski was delivered on Friday morning to Gruevski's office by the head of Greece's Liaison Office in Skopje, the FYROM capital.

In the letter, Karamanlis notes that Greece and FYROM, in accordance with the relevant decisions of the UN Security Council, have for the past 15 years been committed to UN-brokered negotiations for resolution of the FYROM name issue, and that the UN special envoy Matthew Nimetz has in the past few weeks presented some ideas that could move the negotiations forward.

Karamanlis added his regret, however, that at precisely this critical moment in the negotiating effort, Gruevski had chosen to send the letter in question.

The Greek premier stressed that Greece has, throughout this entire process, demonstrated good will to find a mutually acceptable solution in the name issue, under the UN auspices, which would take into consideration the legitimate interests and sensitivities of both countries, underlining Greece's firm commitment to the promotion of friendly and good relations with all its neighboring countries, especially those of the Western Balkans, and the creation of the necessary conditions that will allow them to join the Euro-Atlantic and European families in the near future.

He warned, however, that Gruevski's letter, far from promoting the negotiations and the good neighbourly relations with Greece, raises a number of non-existent and unsubstantiated issues that militate against the strenuous efforts made by Greece, and also aims at interfering in the domestic affairs of a neighbouring state and deviates from the objectives of the ongoing negotiations.

"There is no 'Macedonian' minority in Greece. There never has been. In this respect, any allegations regarding the existence of such a minority are totally unfounded, politically motivated and disrespectful of the historic realities of the Region. As for any properties issue, any individual could make use of any legal recourse before the Courts, including the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg," Karamanlis firmly stressed.

Noting that "times have changed", Karamanlis expressed his conviction that the future of the Balkan countries lies within the European and Euro-Atlantic institutions "and not in nationalist formulas of a bygone era", which he stressed "must be left behind once and for all".

Greece, he continued, remained firmly committed to working towards that goal.

Noting that history judges leaders by how they rise to the challenge and assume their responsibilities. Karamanlis concluded that "much will depend on your positive attitude and constructive spirit».



Karamanlis' letter, full text



Following is the full text of Karamanlis' letter, in reply to a letter addressed to him by Gruevski dated July 10.



«Mr. Prime Minister,



As you are aware for the last fifteen years Greece and your country, pursuant to the relevant decisions of the UN Security Council, have committed themselves to negotiations in the framework of the United Nations regarding the name issue which ?needs to be resolved in the interest of the maintenance of peaceful and good neighbourly relations in the region? as stipulated by the Security Council in Resolution 817.



In the past few weeks the Special Envoy of the United Nations Mr. Matthew Nimetz presented some ideas that could move the negotiations forward. I regret that it is precisely at this critical moment in the negotiating effort that you have chosen to send your letter dated July 10th, 2008.



I take this opportunity to underline Greece’s firm commitment to the promotion of friendly and good relations with all its neighbouring countries, especially with the countries of the Western Balkans, and the creation of the necessary conditions that will allow them to join, in the near future, the Euro-Atlantic and European families.



Greece, since 1993 has demonstrated good will, under the auspices of the U.N., to find a mutually acceptable solution on the name issue, which would take into consideration the legitimate interests and sensitivities of both our countries. This is within the mandate of the relevant U.N. Security Council Resolutions, but also the wish of all countries participating in the Euro-Atlantic and European institutions as was also unequivocally stated in the Bucharest NATO Summit and in the EU European Council in Brussels respectively.



Mr. Prime Minister, your letter far from promoting the negotiations and the good neighbourly relations with my country raises a number of non-existent and unsubstantiated issues that militate against the strenuous efforts made by Greece .It also aims at interfering in the domestic affairs of a neighbouring state and deviates from the objectives of the ongoing negotiations.



There is no ?Macedonian? minority in Greece. There never has been. In this respect, any allegations regarding the existence of such a minority are totally unfounded, politically motivated and disrespectful of the historic realities of the Region. As for any properties issue, any individual could make use of any legal recourse before the Courts, including the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.



Mr. Prime Minister,



Times have changed. I am convinced that the future of the Balkan countries lies within the European and Euroatlantic institutions and not in nationalist formulas of a bygone era which must be left behind once and for all. Greece remains firmly committed to working towards that goal.



History judges leaders by how they rise to the challenge and assume their responsibilities. Much will depend on your positive attitude and constructive spirit».

[Foti66]

http://news.ert.gr/images/ertgr.gif

Mr. Karamanlis' Harsh Answer 18 Ιουλ 2008 08:27:0 (Last updated: 18 Ιουλ 2008 12:39:1)


Prime Minister Kostas Karamanlis sent his harsh answer to the provocative letter sent a few days before by Skopje Prime Minister Mr. Nikola Gruevski who spoke of the existence of a "Macedonia" minority in Greece. The Prime Minister in his two page letter stresses that there never has been a "Macedonia" minority in Greece.. In this respect, any allegations regarding the existence of such a minority are totally unfounded, politically motivated and disrespectful of the historic realities of the Region. Mr. Karamanlis also stressed that the letter does not promote negotiations and relations of good neighboring; it raises non-existing and totally unfounded issues which block the efforts of our country, targets at intervening our internal relations and deviates from the goals of the negotiations which are in progress. Mr. Karamanlis concluded that the future of Balkan countries lies in the European and Euro Atlantic institution and not to national rationales, in an era which has passed by and must stay in the past.







The Content of the Letter


Mr. Prime Minister,

As you are aware for the last fifteen years Greece and your country, pursuant to the relevant decisions of the UN Security Council, have committed themselves to negotiations in the framework of the United Nations regarding the name issue which ?needs to be resolved in the interest of the maintenance of peaceful and good neighbourly relations in the region? as stipulated by the Security Council in Resolution 817.

In the past few weeks the Special Envoy of the United Nations Mr. Matthew Nimetz presented some ideas that could move the negotiations forward. I regret that it is precisely at this critical moment in the negotiating effort that you have chosen to send your letter dated July 10th, 2008.

I take this opportunity to underline Greece’s firm commitment to the promotion of friendly and good relations with all its neighbouring countries, especially with the countries of the Western Balkans, and the creation of the necessary conditions that will allow them to join, in the near future, the Euro-Atlantic and European families.

Greece, since 1993 has demonstrated good will, under the auspices of the U.N., to find a mutually acceptable solution on the name issue, which would take into consideration the legitimate interests and sensitivities of both our countries. This is within the mandate of the relevant U.N. Security Council Resolutions, but also the wish of all countries participating in the Euro-atlantic and European institutions as was also unequivocally stated in the Bucharest NATO Summit and in the EU European Council in Brussels respectively.

Mr. Prime Minister, your letter far from promoting the negotiations and the good neighbourly relations with my country raises a number of non-existent and unsubstantiated issues that militate against the strenuous efforts made by Greece .It also aims at interfering in the domestic affairs of a neighbouring state and deviates from the objectives of the ongoing negotiations.

There is no Macedonian minority in Greece. There never has been. In this respect, any allegations regarding the existence of such a minority are totally unfounded, politically motivated and disrespectful of the historic realities of the Region. As for any properties issue, any individual could make use of any legal recourse before the Courts, including the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.


Mr. Prime Minister,

Times have changed. I am convinced that the future of the Balkan countries lies within the European and Euroatlantic institutions and not in nationalist formulas of a bygone era which must be left behind once and for all. Greece remains firmly committed to working towards that goal.

History judges leaders by how they rise to the challenge and assume their responsibilities. Much will depend on your positive attitude and constructive spirit».

[Makedonia25]

Bravo Karamanlis! Well done! They had to hear it that there NEVER was a 'Macedonian' minority!

How can there be a Macedonian minority when there are 2.5 million Macedonians living in Northern Greece, and who are Greek and speak Greek?

[akritas]

THERE IS NO MACEDONIAN MINORITY IN GREECE. There never has been. In this respect, any allegations regarding the existence of such a minority ARE TOTALLY UNFOUNDED, POLITICALLY MOTIVATED AND DISRESPECTFUL OF THE HISTORIC REALITIES OF THE REGION.

[Dikigoros1981]

Is there such ethnicity as a "Macedonian" one? I would have thought the name dispute also encompasses ethnicity? The assumption that Gruevski presents that a "Macedonian" ethnicity even exists, undermines the issues which are trying to be resolved. He is an extremely irresponsible politician.

Dikigoros1981

[akritas]

Gruevski hopes that if he remains firm, then the West will turn her pressures to Athens. With his action, however, it cancels his basic diplomatic arm. It denies the picture small, feeble and peaceful state, which is pressed by his powerful neighbor. On the one hand with the violence and juggle in the elections and on the other hand with his knockabout and inflexible line in the negotiations on the name.

With his letter, Skopjan ultra-nationalist Prime Minister attempts to changes the game with a escape to front. Gruevski will use this responsive letter as argument for the effectiveness of his line.

Slavmacedonians cover phase of nationalistic fever.
Voted Gruevski , because he promised to them integration in the NATO and in the EU without handings-over in the question of name and "Macedonian" identity. The integration, however, depends from Athens and no from him .
Gruevski leading FYROM Slavs in strategic impasse and accentuates their contradiction. With this significance, the intolerance and his in elasticity shape the conditions in order to exist the slavmacedonian politico-psychology defeat.

In my opinion this letter is voutiro sto psomi tou skopianou ethinikisti prothipourgou.

[Makedonia25]

From the Greek Spokesman:

http://www.mfa.gr/www.mfa.gr/Articles/e ... KL1914.htm

Greece: Interview of Foreign Ministry spokesman Mr. G. Koumoutsakos on NET radio's "Radioefimerida" with journalist Ms. M. Georgiou
Ms. M. Georgiou: Foreign Ministry spokesman Mr. George Koumoutsakos is on the phone with us. Good afternoon, Mr. Koumoutsakos.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Good afternoon Ms. Georgiou, good afternoon to Ms. Adam as well.

Ms. K. Adam: Good afternoon.

Ms. M. Georgiou: We are discussing the content of the Gruevski letter, Mr. Koumoutsakos.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I will not go into that.

Ms. M. Georgiou: You don't want to discuss it at all?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: There is no question of a discussion. Things are absolutely clear. And they are not clear only in Athens, they must be clear to the international community, they must be made clear if they are not clear to everyone. The masks are now falling.

Mr. Gruevski through his letter – which essentially recycles recent statements – has now confirmed what the objective is. Skopje's objective is in essence to raise obstacles to the negotiations: to obstruct negotiations and lead to a deadlock.

Greece has taken a clear stance. Yesterday's statement of the Government Spokesman and Minister of State and the Foreign Minister's simple, but full of meaning and political substance, statement made earlier outside Maximos Mansion show what Greece's position is.

Firstly: Negotiations have one objective. It is the objective set by the Security Council through its two resolutions. It is based on these resolutions that Mr. Nimetz is doing his work. This is what Greece discusses.

Secondly: With regard to the attempt to raise non-existent issues and all the efforts to lead negotiations to a deadlock, Greece is not going to follow that. It will just provide information and it is already doing that by means of its public statements on who is our collocutor and what is their true objective. Nothing else. Things are clear.

Ms. K. Adam: If you would allow me, Mr. Koumoutsakos, to take a position and ask a question. Do you have the impression that Mr. Gruevski is in this way, i.e. by invoking non-existent minorities in Greece and, in particular, a "Macedonian minority"…

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Ms. Adam, I'm sorry to interrupt. I would not like us to play this game at all. When we talk about what Mr. Gruevski is trying to raise, we will have to talk about a so-called minority and not about a "Macedonian minority", I repeat a so-called minority. You know that better than me, there are no such things. There is an effort to fabricate an issue in order to turn negotiations away from their objective.

Ms. K. Adam: Precisely, yes. I said before that Mr. Gruevski is hoping to fabricate minorities with his letters, on things that do not exist.

But I wanted to ask something else. In this way, Mr. Gruevski gives me the impression that he wants to avoid at all costs, in every way and with every possible means, the substance of negotiations and the substance of the Greek position, i.e. one name with one single use, which automatically touches upon this country's ethnicity.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: With regard to the substance of negotiations, the Greek position has been repeatedly described. Its basic characteristics have been given. The credibility of our position is not put into question. It was confirmed in the clearest, most unequivocal manner in Bucharest through the Greek government's and the Greek Prime Minister's stance there. These are not put under discussion.

Now, with regard to identities and ethnicities. I know one thing, Ms. Adam and Ms. Georgiou, one thing is a given: 2.5 million Greeks feel proud to be Macedonians. That is what I know. Now, what Mr. Gruevski is saying, what he is referring to, what identities he is talking about, etc. that is his problem. That is what I know.

I repeat: There are negotiations with one specific objective, as described in the UN Security Council resolutions I told you about earlier. This is our objective. This is what we are working for. This is what Mr. Nimetz is working for over the past few years. That is one thing.

And a second thing: With regard to who is who, I am telling you that what I am interested in is that 2.5 million Greeks feel proud to be Macedonians. Nothing else.

Ms. M. Georgiou: Let's move to the operational aspect of this letter. First of all, will the Foreign Minister reply or is it Mr. Karamanlis?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: As you know, the Government Spokesman announced yesterday that there will be a reply by the Prime Minister.

Ms. M. Georgiou: I think Mr. Loverdos made a public suggestion on air on our radio station, i.e. he suggested to the Prime Minister not to answer Mr. Nikolas Gruevski but turn to the UN Secretary General directly instead and interrupt discussions.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I will not make any comments at the present time on Mr. Loverdos' positions. What I take from these statements and the line of reasoning not just of statements made by the main opposition, but also by all of the country's political parties, is that they agree with the political direction of the Greek reaction. That is, that point out the fact that Skopje is essentially torpedoing and trying to undermine the foundations of negotiations.

Beyond that, there are proposals and thoughts. This is something that, in any event, is assessed jointly by those that need to assess it.

At the same time, we must not – although we must make our position absolutely clear and I think that it is made clear with yesterday's and today's statements – give any excuse for Mr. Gruevski to create impressions about Greece's supposed intolerance.

What is clear is that we have to do with a confirmation of at least a lack – if not more - of will on the part of Skopje to resolve this issue.

Ms. K. Adam: If you would allow me, Mr. Koumoutsakos, in order to put things in order. The Skopje leadership had kept low the issue of a claim about a non-existent "Macedonian minority" in Greece before the elections. It was Assistant Secretary of State Mr. Fried who following Bucharest sparked the issue of a "Macedonian minority" by blowing it in the air.

I think you know better than I do that in the U.S. government's latest annual reports on human rights, there is always a paragraph about the Macedonian issue in Greece.

Do you think that all these designed moves and this crescendo on the issue on the part of Skopje are guided by the U.S. government? And whether the Greek government has taken any soundings or has had any talks on this with the U.S. side, which - let's not fool ourselves – is pushing this issue as best it can.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: The official position of the United States as I know it – because I will not speak about a statement by Mr. Fried that has not been repeated and that I haven't seen in any case be included in the official U.S. position – is that they want the problem to be resolved so that NATO's policy – which in large part is a. U.S. policy – with regard to NATO's enlargement to the three Western Balkan countries can bear fruit.

So this is their objective. We know it, because this is precisely what we were talking about in Bucharest.

The United States know very well, as does the Alliance – which, I should remind you, took a decision with the joint communiqué of the Bucharest summit – that without a solution on the name, there cannot be an invitation to join for our neighbouring country. So without a solution, the Alliance's enlargement policy, which the United States officially stated they want to complete, will not be completed.

So I think that moves like Mr. Gruevski's, which torpedo the process of finding a solution, will not contribute to, and are moving in exactly the opposite direction of, the officially declared policy of the United States, i.e. for the issue to be resolved and for NATO's enlargement to be completed.

Ms. K. Adam: Mr. Koumoutsakos I have a rather awkward question to ask. This is, of course, the official position, but after Bucharest, we saw the United States pushing as much as they could, to promote as best they could, to call Skopje to international organisations and insist on the name "Republic of Macedonia" as they should not have done, I mean to say that the government's position on the name issue is not so soft and not so distanced.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Ms. Adam, I took a position based on a simple reading of specific and publicly known policies. An equation if you like: they want to resolve the issue in order for NATO to enlarge.

Washington knows very well – I repeat, they signed the joint communiqué - that without a solution, there will be no enlargement. So given that the strategic goal is to complete the enlargement, they all must be very concerned with moves such as Mr. Gruevski's move that go in exactly the opposite direction: rendering even more difficult an already very complex negotiation.

Ms. K. Adam: Do we have a clue as to whether Mr. Gruevski sent a similar letter or presented similar positions to Mr. Nimetz in order for them to be officially included in the negotiations?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: No, I am not aware of such a thing.

Ms. M. Georgiou: Let me ask you something, because we are referring to the letter. Why did we learn about it from our neighbouring country's media?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Because European democratic countries that do not hold problematic elections, observe certain basic rules on the practice of managing their international relations. One does not make public a letter sent by somebody else.

Ms. M. Georgiou: Right.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: None of the Greek government's moves are going to be characterised by a lack of seriousness.

Ms. M. Georgiou: Up until now we had avoided exaggerations such as in the period 1990-1992. Are you afraid that such moves could create domestic problems? Could heighten tensions?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I did not quite get your question.

Ms. M. Georgiou: Up until now, we avoided heightened tones, for example, rallies like in the period 1990-1992, in the way we handled the issue.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I see. The Greek government and – I feel the need to say, all the political parties – are handling the issue very responsibly. The government, first of all, and the entire political world forming consensus around policies is responsibly handling the issue.

I don't believe that other forms of positions or reactions could contribute to, or be the decisive element of, a responsible and well thought-out policy, more efficient or not.

There is a responsible government and the political world is handling this particular issue with great responsibility. I think that this suffices and this climate of consensus is the Greek position's strength.

Ms. K. Adam: One last question about the history of the matter. How did the Gruevski letter reach Maximos Mansion? That is, did it come from Skopje's liaison office in Athens?

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: I haven't followed. I just wanted to say that every document of correspondence – because there are relations between the two countries – is always sealed with the FYROM seal, wherever it is written "Republic of Macedonia", etc., in order to be received under the name FYROM.

Ms. K. Adam: There would have been a seal on the envelope. I suspect that the letter would have had a wide big "Republic of Macedonia" written on it.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: There is no document that does not bear the FYROM seal.

Ms. K. Adam: Right.

Ms. M. Georgiou: Mr. Koumoutsakos, thank you very much.

Mr. G. Koumoutsakos: Thank you.

[Paulos Melas]

If we try to read behind the lines it seems that there is on principle agreement between skopje and athens. An agreement imposed by US.
At this point all issues are to be closed and as such Grueski plays his last cards.
He is raising identity and minority issues, on an attempt to achieve as nuch as possible now.
Skopje cannot afford a prolonged isolation, no at least at this moment were global economical and diplomatical crisis favors multinational entities against the old state-nation model.
As it is appeared both issues raised by the skopian leadership didn t gain much of support from the West, with the latter knowing the a comprimise on an erga omnes basis is required. A description fror all uses incl ethnicity and language along with the abandonment of minority and other forged irridentic issues.
It seems that we are very close to a solution. Lets wait and see.

[Mygdonia]

This is incorrect by Athens.

Gruevskis letter broke the Interim Accord YET AGAIN.

All diplomatic relations should have stopped there and then, the borders permanently closed.

I do not understand the reasoning behind the continuing efforts to deal with these people??

You may as well discuss issues with a brick wall, at least a brick wall will make more sense than these fanatics.

[Truth Bearer]

At least we are showing that we are civilised it's these goatherders that are showing the world what blockheads they are!!