The articles of Roberto Lopes about Macedonia

[Nikolaz]

Article no10: Here he debates witha Skopjan guy named "Ilinden"

Hi,

On 1 Jan 2005 at 10:46, Ilinden
Wrote about "Education for the Turkogreki ":

> Subject: Plutarchus,Herodotus,Demosthenes
> Plutarchus wrote that the Macedonians had their own language.
> Herodotus: According to Herodotus the Macedonians spoke a different
> language from the Hellenes.

Interesting? Why then they NEVER used any other language than Greek?

Saying the ancient Macedonians didn't have the same language as all
other Greeks is as NONSENSE to anyone who does not DESPERATELY
lie to THEMSELVES as saying the Romans did NOT speak LATIN.

If the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, why they NEVER had any
essential cultural elements that were not Greek just like the
essential cultural elements of all other Greeks?

Do you ACTUALLY think that such empty WORDS can face THOUSANDS of
archaeological and historical evidences? MAYBE in Vardarska.

The Greeks had different dialects, as even modern countries have. But
as THOUSANDS of archaeological and historical evidences prove, they
had all the same essential cultural elements, including the language.
Again, how does one prove a Chinese city is Chinese?

Also, I would like to see those statements by those writers, not your
empty words, who place theirs out of context. For instance, Plutarch
in his "Lives of Illustrious Men" said many times the Macedonians
were Greeks and that ALEXANDROS III, for instance, carried
with him all the time a copy of the ILIAD, by HOMER.

By the way, can you (or the ones in Skopje or in Washington) present
archaeological finds that suggest that the ancient Macedonians were
not Greeks like any other Greeks? In other words, can you present
archaeological finds that suggest that the ancient Macedonians did
not have the same essential cultural elements as all other Greeks?

If the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, why they had the same
essential cultural elements as all other Greeks?

If what you say is true why you can't see in museums even in Skopje
ANY archaeological finds supporting your WORDS? It should be easy,
considering all you say... But it's IMPOSSIBLE, instead.

> Demosthenes: Demosthenes said the Macedonians were neither of Greek
> origin nor were ever related to the Greeks. At that time the
> Macedonians were called barbarians,meaning aliens. Demosthenes also
> said: This man Philip is not only not a Greek,or a man who has anything
> to do with us Greeks,but not even a barbarian from a country with an
> honourable name: No,a pestilent Macedonian fellow from a country where
> one could never buy a decent slave before.!

YOUR words are VERY exaggerated, not to mention out of context...

Also, it's OBVIOUS that Demosthenes, who was an Athenian politician,
hated FILIPPOS II and hated the possibility that Attica would be once
again submitted to the hegemony of another Greek State. Attica had
been, for instance, under the hegemony of Beocia, the last State that
reached a situation of hegemony in Greece just before the hegemony
of Macedonia. Calling FILIPPOS II a "barbarian" was the BEST insult
possible to use against someone who was evidently NOT barbarian.

For instance, calling a Persian a barbarian would have NO effect. It
would call NO attention of the Athenians nor actually insult anyone.
That's VERY simple to realize. It's like for a present-day Greek to
try to insult another Greek by calling them Bulgarian or Turk. Only
by calling a Greek something they are NOT an insult can be built in
such situations. Calling a Greek a Greek or calling a Bulgarian a
Bulgarian or a Turk a Turk would have NO RHETORICAL EFFECT.

As for FILIPPOS II. His name already shows he was Greek. FILIPPOS
comes from FILOS (friend) + IPPOS (horse). That is, FILIPPOS means
someone who likes horses. Considering that horses then were much more
important than cars are now, it's easy to understand its meaning and
how a possible future king would be given that name. To make things
clear, horses were more important than cars are now because people
did what we do with cars but they also used them in wars.

The Olympiad was a national event of the Greeks. Even their internal
wars in their continuous struggle for hegemony stopped. Unlike now,
the Olympiad was restricted to the Greeks. Being Greeks like any
other Greeks and sharing with the other Greeks all their essential
cultural elements, such as language, religion, traditions, symbols,
etc, the Macedonians participated of the Olympiads.

A chariot belonging to FILIPPOS II won a race in the 106th Olympiad,
the year of the birth of ALEXANDROS III. That's how the date of the
birth of ALEXANDROS III is calculated. FILIPPOS II issued beautiful
coins to celebrate his victory in the Olympiad. Those are REAL
evidences. More even, those are MORE PROOFS that FILIPPOS II
and all Macedonians were Greeks like any other Greeks.

You can see a nice photo showing a chariot here:
http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/He...img_B122a.html

By the way, did you see some of the THOUSANDS of archaeological finds
from Macedonia and all other parts of Greece? What they say to you?
What do you think they say to ANYONE who's not DESPERATELY lying to
THEMSELVES? What about the quotes from historical documents written
BEFORE the 1940's? I included them again in the end of this message.

ALEXANDROS is also a typical Greek name which was used by the Greeks
even before the Greek alphabet was created, as the decipherment of
the Linear B set of characters proved. Speaking about names, OLYMPIAS
(mother of ALEXANDROS III), LEONIDAS (military tutor of ALEXANDROS
III), ARISTOTELIS (cultural tutor of ALEXANDROS III) and CLEOPATRA
(sister of ALEXANDROS III) are all typical Greek names, formed from
Greek words. That's another proof, based on FACTS, not empty WORDS.

ANYONE who does not DESPERATELY lie to themselves will find ABSURD
the claims that a people formed by SLAVS who arrived in that region a
THOUSAND years after the death of FILIPPOS II and ALEXANDROS III
and who claimed to be their descendants MORE THAN TWO THOUSAND
YEARS after their death have ANY connection to those persons.

> Ilinden the Macedonian

As I said, you could sign also "Ilinden the Martian"...

> Subject: Demosthenes,Thukididis Herodotus
> They said the Macedonians are not Hellenes. Today's Greeks claim that
> the ancient Macedonians were Greek. Should we listen to today's Greek
> propagandists telling us what happened 2500 years ago, or should we
> accept the viewpoint of the ancient Hellenes who clearly stated that the
> Macedonians were not Hellenes?

There are THOUSANDS of archaeological and historical evidences that
demonstrate that the ancient Macedonians had all the same essential
cultural elements as all other Greeks. That is there are THOUSANDS of
archaeological and historical evidences that demonstrate they were
Greeks like any other Greeks. It's exactly the same task as proving
Athenians or Spartans were Greeks like any other Greeks.

> No, even today you cannot believe the Greeks. When the Greeks occupied
> Aegean Macedonia in 1913, they began to change peoples' names, place
> names and suppressed the Macedonian language in 1936. They did this to
> make the Macedonian people look like they are Greek, but they will never
> accomplish this. The Macedonians can never be changed into something
> else. They will always be Macedonians!

Present archaeological and historical evidences that the ancient
Macedonians were not Greeks just like any other Greeks and present
archaeological and historical evidences that existed some "Macedonian
nation" and some "Macedonian language" before the falsification
efforts created by Yugoslavia in the 1940's.

Your WORDS are as EMPTY as the words of someone claiming to be
MARTIAN or the words of a Kemalist or a Nazi trying to deny or at
least minimize the genocides perpetrated by Turkey and Germany.

If you wish, see: http://www.HellenicGenocide.org

> Philip's tomb was found in Macedonian territory not in Sparta. Yet
> Greece claims that Philip was a Greek king. What does that tell you
> about Greek lies?

Sure, FILIPPOS II was a Macedonian, therefore Greek. His tomb was
built in his own land, like the tombs of any other Greeks in any
other part of Greece who could be buried in their own lands.

> Ilinden
>
> Subject: Demosthenes said the Macedonians
> Demosthenes said that the Macedonians were neither of Greek origin nor
> were ever related to the Greeks. At that time the Macedonians were
> called barbarians, meaning aliens. Demosthenes also said:" that this man
>
> Philip is not only not a Greek, nor a man who has anything to do with us
>
> Greeks, but not even a barbarian from a country with an honourable name:
>
> no, a pestilent Macedonian fellow from a country where one could never
> buy a decent slave before."
> So are we to believe Demosthenes who lived during this time or do we
> believe today's Greeks who the are world's greatest falsifiers?

AGAIN:

There are THOUSANDS of archaeological and historical evidences that
demonstrate that the ancient Macedonians had all the same essential
cultural elements as all other Greeks. That is there are THOUSANDS of
archaeological and historical evidences that demonstrate they were
Greeks like any other Greeks. It's exactly the same task as proving
Athenians or Spartans were Greeks like any other Greeks.


The rhetoric of Demosthenes has been analysed above, in detail. Feel
free to try to refute those arguments based on THOUSANDS of
archaeological and historical evidences. Try to use FACTS.

Stop lying to yourself. Try to feel proud of what you really are. You
can do it. Like any country, Vardarska/FYROM* cannot be properly
built over lies, lies created by criminal dictators 60 years ago.

You should hate the ones who turned your people into supporters of a
crime against humanity, not the Greeks, the target of that crime.

> Ilinden

* FYROM: Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, known as Vardarska
until the 1940's, when Yugoslavia changed its name and falsified its
cultural heritage in order to try to steal Macedonia from Hellas.

Roberto Lopes.
São Paulo, Brazil -

[Nikolaz]

Article no 11:

Some quotes from historical documents written BEFORE 1940

The first URL is the chapter or the section that includes the quote.
Following the quote(s) is the URL of the beginning of the work.


"The Macedonians---Greek, Bulgar and Serb---who had been the
Armenians' principal fellow-victims in the days of oppression, paid
the Constitution lip-homage and secretly prepared to strike. They
were irreconcilable irredentists, and saw in the reform of the Empire
simply an obstacle to their secession from it."

Section IV
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915.../a17.htm#hist4

The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire 1915-16
By Viscount Bryce - 1916
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915/bryce/a00tc.htm

----

"This cession changed the whole Balkan situation and it made
Bulgaria an ally of Turkey and the Central Powers. Besides the
railroad, Bulgaria obtained that part of Adrianople which lay west
of the Maritza River. In addition, of course, Bulgaria was to receive
Macedonia, as soon as that province could be occupied by Bulgaria
and her allies."

Chapter XXI
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...u/Morgen21.htm

"But the one thing on which they had definitely settled was
the permanent dismemberment of Serbia. Not an acre of Macedonia
would be returned to Serbia and even parts of old Serbia would be
retained; that is, Serbia would become a much smaller country
than she had been before the Balkan wars, and, in fact, she
would practically disappear as an independent state."

Chapter XXVIII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...u/Morgen28.htm

Ambassador Morgenthau's Story
By Henry Morgenthau - 1918
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...u/MorgenTC.htm

----

"The fall of Abdul Hamid had been made possible by the cooperation
and aid of the Christians. But the latter - Greeks, Bulgars, Serbs -
were soon cruelly disillusioned. A general persecution was started,
the details of which were reported to their various governments by
all the consuls of the city. This persecution first displayed itself
in the form of sporadic murders of alarming frequency all over
Macedonia, the victims being, in the beginning, notables of
the various Christian communities."

Chapter III
http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/hb-3.html

"It was this indiscriminate persecution of Greeks, Bulgars and Serbs
which drove them into the same camp and enabled them to chase
the Turk out of Macedonia, even though they did fall at one another´s
throats as soon as they got rid of the common enemy."

Chapter III
http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/hb-3.html

The Blight of Asia
By George Horton - 1926
http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton

----

"Instead of putting through the long-expected Reforms in Macedonia,
they had definitely abandoned the promised policy, and the
persecution of the Christian subjects had been so atrocious as to
inflame the people of Greece and Bulgaria, of whom the population
for the most part had originally formed elements."

Chapter IX
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...y/Page03.htm#9

Italy And The World War
By Thomas Nelson Page - 1920
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...aly/PageTC.htm

----

"In 1917, Greece comes in. Why? Because on the borders of Macedonia,
of Thrace and of Asia Minor she had felt---despite the German
leanings of her King---the soul of ancient Hellas stirring. The
breath of liberty passes everywhere."

Chapter III
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...dieu03.htm#III

"It was in Strassburg and in Metz that the Tyrol, the Trient, Istria,
Croatia, Slovania, Transylvania, the Greeks of Macedonia and Asia,
the Belgians of the Walloon cantons and the Danes of Schleswig
found abundant reason not to despair of the future. It was at
Alsatian firesides that all oppressed nationalities kindled their
hopes of redemption or of rebirth. All these hopes and all these
aspirations were fed by Alsace and Lorraine."

Chapter VII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...dieu06.htm#VII

The Truth about the Treaty
By André Tardieu - 1921
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...ardieu00tc.htm

----

"I found several old friends--Heathcote-Smith, the Consul, whose work
it would be impertinent for me to praise, and Hadkinson, whom I had
last seen at my own house in England, where he was staying with me
when the Archduke Franz Ferdinand had been murdered. Hadkinson had
passed most of his life on his property in Macedonia. Of the Eastern
and Southern languages he talked Greek, Italian, Turkish, Bulgarian,
Serbian, and Albanian."

ANZAC
http://www.ku.edu/carrie/texts/world...Mons/mons2.htm

Mons, Anzac & Kut
By Aubrey Herbert - 1919
http://www.ku.edu/carrie/texts/world.../Mons/mons.htm

----

"The Turks feared that the European powers might decide to allow
Greece to annex the parts of Macedonia and Thrace that had a majority
of Greeks ---nearly a million in Thrace alone---and also perhaps the
islands and rich southern shores of Asia Minor, peopled by Greeks
from time immemorial. The "new Turks" in 1913 decided that these
Greeks must be moved, impoverished, killed, or put out of the way.
The purely Germanic scheme of wholesale deportation combined with
robbery and destruction of all property was adopted. The work began
in Asia Minor ----nearly a year before the war."

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...acts2.htm#3.47

"Almost simultaneous was the attack on the Bulgarians by General
d'Esperey, commander of the Allied armies in Macedonia. The British
and French were assisted by some 250,000 Greeks, and by the Serbian
army. The first blow was struck September 16, from the base at
Salonica, beginning near Lake Dorian. Here the British and Greek
troops struck on the right wing, while the Serbs and French broke
the Bulgarian centre and drove through."

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...acts3.htm#7.52

Handbook of WAR Facts and Peace Problems
By Arthur L. Frothingham - 1919
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...s/wfactsTC.htm

----

"In the Balkans it is likely enough that Austria, backed by the
preponderant influence of the Triple Alliance, would have availed
herself of one of the several crises which have followed the young
Turkish revolution, to force her way to Salonica and to annex a part
at least of Macedonia. For my part, I do not doubt that the Bulgarian
population which she would have acquired would have been happier
under her rule than it is now, or is ever likely to be under the
Servians and Greeks."

CHAPTER I
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...sford/AP01.htm

"Her armies entered on the first war with spirit and enthusiasm. It
was a war of liberation, undertaken on behalf of the oppressed
peasant of Macedonia, and every Bulgarian soldier knew from the
tales of his elders or from his own experience the misery and
degradation of the Turkish yoke which he fought to overthrow."

CHAPTER VI
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...sford/AP06.htm

"Take for the example the case of the Bulgarians. If the Allies win
this war, and leave Macedonia in possession of the Serbs, as they
very well may do, three Bulgarians in four would see in the League's
command to disarm merely an intolerable act of tyranny."

CHAPTER XI
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...sford/AP11.htm

The War Of Steel And Gold A Study Of The Armed Peace
By Henry Noel Brailsford - 1918
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...sford/APTC.htm

----

"Bulgaria had long cast covetous eyes upon the rich Drama-Kavalla
provinces in Macedonia, peopled by Greeks and Turks. Venizelos
now planned to offer her these provinces in return for her absolute
assurance of neutrality. This scheme he laid before King Constantine
in two letters dated January 24 and 30, 1915, too long to quote
here."

CHAPTER III
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/Vaka/Vaka2.htm


"If Germany feels that she needs the prestige of yet another
conquest, she can overrun and subjugate Greece. The conquest of
Greece would mean the destruction of the Macedonian Allied army
and the prolongation of the war."

CHAPTER VIII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/Vaka/Vaka4.htm

In the Heart of German Intrigue
By Demetra Vaka - 1918
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/Vaka/VakaTC.htm

----

"On the other hand, the value of Bulgarian support to the Allies
was so obvious that her demands were not likely to be modest.
Her principal object was to secure the reversion of what was
represented to be Bulgarian Macedonia."

CHAPTER XI
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/Rodd/Rodd11.htm

Social And Diplomatic Memories (Third Series) 1902-1919
By Sir James Rennell Rodd -1925
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/Rodd/RoddTC.htm

----

"Moreover the Turkish and Bulgarian sections of the population
of Macedonia were naturally hostile to their countries' retreating
enemies. In more than one village straggling French soldiers were
found murdered with their eyes and tongues torn out by the
frenzied women of the place."

CHAPTER II
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo.../salon1.htm#c2


"Every mile or two as you drive you will find the road lined on
both sides with a black fringe of these peasants, refugees or
local villagers,---of all the races of the Balkans, Serb, Turkish,
Bulgar (though of Greek allegiance), the mixed race that calls
itself "Macedonian," Kutzo-Vlach, and Greek."

CHAPTER VII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...ica/salon3.htm

"At length, at the end of August, 1916, came the "Salonica
Revolution." This was an outbreak of indignation of the Greeks of
Macedonia against the simultaneous invasion of still larger tracts of
both Eastern and Western Macedonia by the Bulgars, which took place
in August, when they occupied Florina and Banitza and advanced to
Lake Ostrovo in the west, and pushed on to Kavalla in the east."

CHAPTER VII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...ica/salon3.htm


"General Zimbrakakis made an impassioned speech from horseback
amid loud cheers of "Zito!" then went in to offer the support of his
adherents to the Allied cause for the liberation of Macedonia.
Sarrail accepted the proffered services, having already been in the
habit of taking Greek volunteers into the French Army since the
Bulgars came into Greece."

CHAPTER VII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...ica/salon3.htm


"The "revolution" was over, and the Committee of National Defence,
taking over the administration of Salonica, though French martial law
continued to exist there, issued next day a decree mobilising the
1915 class throughout Macedonia, which was the beginning of the
co-operation of Greek forces with the Allies in the field."

CHAPTER VII
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...ica/salon3.htm


"They themselves, as natives of the Balkans, knew well the bitter
hatred of Bulgar for Serb, the deadly resentment in Sofia of the
Treaty of Bucharest, the fierce resolve of the Bulgarians not to
rest until they had won back what they wanted of Macedonia."

CHAPTER XV
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...salon5.htm#c15

The Story of the Salonica Army
By G. Ward Price - 1918
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...ca/salonTC.htm

----

"In the Isonzo region the Italians are intensifying their offensive
east of Gorizia. In Macedonia the English are crossing the Struma
whilst the French and Serbians, after occupying Florina, are
hustling the Bulgarians in the direction of Monastir."

CHAPTER II
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...us/pal3-02.htm


"Sazonov is in possession of a number of secret documents, deciphered
telegrams, and intercepted letters from which it plainly appears that
the recent incursion of Bulgarian comitadji into Serbian Macedonia
was arranged between Vienna and Serbia."

CHAPTER X
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...us/pal1-10.htm

An Ambassador's Memoirs
By Maurice Paléologue - 1925
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memo...bRus/palTC.htm

----

"The allied front in Macedonia continued to remain inactive save for
the excursions of Greek troops, whose now Government had entered
the war on the side of the Allies on the second of July."

Chapter I
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/Scott/SCh01.htm


"On the 14th of September the allied armies in Macedonia under
General Franchet d'Esperey made an attack which, on the last day
of tile month, drove Bulgaria to seek unconditional surrender."

Chapter I
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/Scott/SCh01.htm

The American Negro In The World War
By Emmett J. Scott - 1919
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...tt/ScottTC.htm

----

"The new Greeks were afire to deliver the millions of their brothers
left in Turkey. By instinct they welcomed the War as a new crusade.
But the old Greeks, tired out by two wars, felt that after its recent
rapid development what their country needed was peace.

Venizelos naturally turned to the newcomers. He had against him all
the traditional forces of the nation ranged round the King and his
vassals. His friends were in Macedonia and the islands, but it was
his enemies who were at Athens in the Cabinet and at the court."

VENIZELOS
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...rtin3.htm#veni

Statesmen Of The War In Retrospect 1918-1928
By William Martin - 1928
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comm...n/MartinTC.htm

[Nikolaz]

Article no12:

Another dialogue with a Vardarskian: psychological aspects of the
crime and different NIGHTMARES.

Geia sas,

The dialogue included in the end of this message might be useful.

Besides the common archaeological and historical arguments it deals
with a mostly ignored part of the issue; what the Vardarskians FEEL.

We must keep in mind that it is VERY MUCH PAINFUL for them to be
confronted with the truth. The truth will make their dreams of being
descendants of ALEXANDROS O MEGAS end.

They will sleep as the people who "conquered the known world" and
will wake up as "simple" Bulgarians and Serbs, who speak Bulgarian,
not a "unique" and "ancient" language of their own.

They will sleep as "victims of the cruel Greeks" and will wake up as
supporters of a crime against humanity perpetrated against Hellas.

They will sleep as having many reasons to "COMPENSATE" their own
despair for being a poor, weak, surrounded by enemies even AT HOME,
country and will wake up as suddenly being deprived from that STRONG
anaesthesia, which they take SINCE THEY ARE CHILDREN.

When asked even SIMPLE questions like how they, being SLAVS who speak
BULGARIAN, could be connected to the ancient Macedonians if THOUSANDS
of archaeological and historical evidences demonstrate beyond doubts
that the ancient Macedonians were Greeks and that no "Macedonian
nation" nor "Macedonian language" ever existed, they actually see
some of their WORST NIGHTMARES becoming REAL.

Speaking about NIGHTMARES, when the Hellenes will AWAKE and will, for
instance, make the Hellenic government do SOMETHING USEFUL instead
of making the lies from Vardarska/FYROM* even STRONGER?! See the Web
site of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. See how they do NOTHING to
denounce and to end those lies and even make them STRONGER.

What did you do or will do about the statues of ALEXANDROS III and
FILIPPOS II being built in Vardarska/FYROM*, a country whose people
is taught that they have the "DUTY" of INVADING Hellas because they
are the "TRUE DESCENDANTS" of those two Hellenes?! Nothing again?!

Are you doing ANYTHING AT ALL to prevent the Hellenic government from
accepting a name for Vardarska/FYROM* that includes "Macedonia"?! Or
will just lament another SUICIDAL decision of your EMPLOYEES?! I can
suppose you (Hellenic people EVERYWHERE) are doing NOTHING!

Probably in a few years I will have to sell some of my few belongings
to pay a ticket to Athens so I can volunteer to fight side by side
with the Hellenes when Hellas is INVADED, probably by THREE enemies.
That's what you are BUILDING for your own country by doing NOTHING!

Most saddening, you do NOTHING even when you can EASILY win.

* FYROM: Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, known as Vardarska
until the 1940's, when Yugoslavia changed its name and falsified its
cultural heritage in order to try to steal Macedonia from Hellas.

Regards,

Roberto Lopes.
São Paulo, Brazil -

[Nikolaz]

Article no13: Debate with the "Ilinden guy"

Hi,

On 29 Dec 2004 at 16:41, Ilinden
Wrote about "Subject: Uncivilized Greek Governme":

> Subject: Uncivilized Greek Government
> To the uncivilized Greek Government:
> Since the Greek occupation of Aegean Macedonia, by changing my first and
>
> last name from Macedonian into Greek does not make me Greek.

Why should anyone consider the existence of a "Macedonian nation"
if there are NO archaeological and historical evidences to support
that idea and there are MANY THOUSANDS of archaeological and
historical evidences that demonstrate that the ancient
Macedonians were Greeks like any other Greeks?

The same about a "Macedonian language".

> You occupied my land.

The Brazilians fought in both world wars on the opposite side as the
Bulgarians but we didn't fight them and we didn't fight in Vardarska.

Therefore, your statement makes no sense.

> Who gave you the right to change the toponyms and our first and last
> names, suppressing the Macedonian language, erasing the Macedonian
> script in the churches and rewriting over with Greek.

Any archaeological and historical evidences to support your WORDS?

Not to mention that Brazilians didn't occupy neither Vardarska nor
Greece. In the WWII, we fought only in Italy and the Atlantic. And
our bases were used to liberate Africa from the Germans.

> That tells me that you are still an uncivilized country. You have to
> admit that in Greece there are 7 other nationalities living there. They
> all need human rights. Where is your democracy, on paper only?

Any archaeological and historical evidences to support your WORDS?

All you do is lying to yourself and working on someone else's plans,
created by criminals 60 years ago. Instead, you could be working on
creating a really good future for your new country, based on facts
and on the respect for your neighbours, at least the Greeks, since
unlike others, they have no plans to invade your territory.

There's ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM in having a NEW COUNTRY. You
will lose NOTHING by realizing your people are mainly Bulgarians and
Serbs, who speak Bulgarian. You are SLAVS. So what?! There's NO
problem with that. You are a people as good as any other. Just build
your country with confidence in YOURSELVES, not BASELESS LIES.

NOTHING good can be based on LIES. Your beliefs are as fanatic as
the religious beliefs of people who perpetrate genocides only because
another people follow another religion. Those persons simply "KNOW"
they are right. They simply "KNOW" the truth. They simply "KNOW"
they "MUST" kill the "non-believers". They "KNOW" with NO proofs.

What do you think I want for Vardarska/FYROM*? What the Greeks want?

Do you think I call your people Vardarskian in an attempt to insult?
I don't. Vardarska is a nice name, based on the way the Slavs call
the Axios river. Vardarskian also sounds nice. And, most of all, it's
the true name of that territory, the one used when Yugoslavia decided
that a "Macedonian nation" and a "Macedonian language" should exist.

Did you actually read the quotes I sent you? What they say to you?

What about the THOUSANDS of archaeological and historical evidences
that demonstrate that the ancient Macedonians had exactly the same
essential cultural elements as all other Greeks? What does that fact
say to you? That the ancient Macedonians were "NOT" Greeks?!

I will repeat: I AM NOT AN ENEMY OF YOUR PEOPLE. And I am SURE that
most Greeks are not either. Or Greece would have simply DESTROYED
your country. Just recall that they SUPPORTED you when you were under
a VERY FIERCE attack by the Albanians, who are supported by the USA.

There's no need for you to waste your time sending me more messages
with no archaeological and historical evidences. They would mean
nothing but a waste of both your and my time too.

I realize that realizing we have been misled is VERY PAINFUL. But
it's also an essential step that allows us to EVOLVE. Your doubts
show through your anger. Direct that anger to the ones who misled
your entire people and turned many of them into fanatics for 60
years. Throw the archaeological and historical evidences on them.

> Ilinden

* FYROM: Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, known as Vardarska
until the 1940's, when Yugoslavia changed its name and falsified its
cultural heritage in order to try to steal Macedonia from Hellas.

Roberto Lopes.
São Paulo, Brazil -

[Nikolaz]

Undoubtedly, Roberto Lopes fights like a Greek!

[TALOS]

wow this guy is amazing indeed

[Andrew]

call him to come in our site ... he seems to be a decent fella !

[Makedonomaxos2008]

Originally Posted by Andrew

call him to come in our site ... he seems to be a decent fella !

Indeed!

BTW, maybe this post deserves to become a sticky?

[kostas68]

Viva Brazil cincocampeao!!!!That's why i am a fanatical supporter of the Brazilian national football team for 30 years!

[Flipper]

This guy is a true Hermano!!!
Btw, remove his email Nikolaz!