Relax be's thoughts on religious matters

[TALOS]

Originally Posted by Relax be

The words hellene and pagan were synonymous in that period, I posted something on this matter in the other the other long thread. So thus when the used hellene they were indeed referring to pagan, so you can use the terms interchangeably.

The modern definition is an entirely different concept.

so when Alexander and many others speak of HELLAS and HELLINES what does he mean, a coutry which has a name of a religion and the people that belong to that religion?

mate, go open up a book and see what Hellene means and then come and give us "lessons"

[Draco]

Originally Posted by Relax be

The words hellene and pagan were synonymous in that period, I posted something on this matter in the other the other long thread. So thus when they used hellene they were indeed referring to pagan, so you can use the terms interchangeably.

The modern definition is an entirely different concept.

It's a modern translation though. If the word in the original corresponds to "pagan" in the modern language, it should have been translated as such.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Relax be

The words hellene and pagan were synonymous in that period, .

No it was not. Being called a Hellene meant that you were a Greek, speaking Greek, believing in Greek Gods and such.

.

I posted something on this matter in the other the other long thread. So thus when the used hellene they were indeed referring to pagan, so you can use the terms interchangeably.

The modern definition is an entirely different concept.

This passage from the Bible was from Roman times. So what did it mean to be called Roman? Pagan too?

How about a period earlier in the Bible from the Book of Daniel:

"And now I will show you the truth. Behold, three more kings shall arise in Persia; and a fourth shall be far richer than all of them; and when he has become strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece. Then a mighty king shall arise, who shall rule with great dominion and do according to his will. And when he has arisen, his kingdom shall be broken and divided toward the four winds of heaven, but not to his posterity, nor according to the dominion with which he ruled; for his kingdom shall be plucked up and go to others besides these." (Daniel 11:2-4 RSV)
.

"He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time of the end. As for the ram which you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia. And the he-goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn between his eyes is the first king. As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power." (Daniel 8:15-22 RSV)

[Relax be]

Originally Posted by Draco

It's a modern translation though. If the word in the original corresponds to "pagan" in the modern language, it should have been translated as such.

See the top word highlighted by Kosta says Грци (Greeks) while the bottom word says елини (hellenes). If the passage was referring to the same people, they would have not used two different words to describe them. So the passage makes a distinction between the two words where they are used, thus it implies they refer to two different spheres.. And this corroborates with the alternate definition of hellenes (pagans) that was applied in that period.

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by Relax be

See the top word highlighted by Kosta says Грци (Greeks) while the bottom word says елини (hellenes). If the passage was referring to the same people, they would have not used two different words to describe them. So the passage makes a distinction between the two words where they are used, thus it implies they refer to two different spheres.. And this corroborates with the alternate definition of hellenes (pagans) that was applied in that period.

In the original text in Greek language it says only <Hellenes> both times,because,if you don't know in Greek language only this term is used as national name of the Greeks.In the English text is used again the same word both times,<Greeks> and i think if we made a research for translations in other languages,we'll find only one term ,<Greques> ,or <Griegos> ,or <Greci>,or <Griechen> e.t.c. Only in the <Makedonski> version of Bible happens this,the use of 2 different names for the Greeks in Macedonian cities.I can imagine why.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by Relax be

A slight correction Costa

а од угледните елински жени и мажи - не малку.

Back in those times the word Hellene was translated to mean pagan, as we discussed that in the other thread.

So in that sense the passage is trying to say many of the non believers became believers.

Yes, but it implies the Greek pagans alone. Both terms "Greek" and "Hellene" were used to define the Greek/Hellenic people in the antiquity, and the distinction between Hellene "Pagan" and Greek "Christian" came only after the rise of Christianity. The term Greek was not invented by the Christians, it was there long before they appeared and hijacked the meaning of the term "Greek".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_o...CE.BF.CE.AF.29

"The modern English adaptation of Greek is derived from the Latin Graecus, which in turn originates from Greek Γραικός (Graikos) the eponymous of the Γραικοί (Graikoi), a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[30]"

^ Homer, "Iliad", II, 498

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As you can see below, at the time of St. Paul the "Hellene" was only a Greek pagan. This designation was *eventually* applied to all the pagans, but at a much later time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_o...an_.22pagan.22

"Hellene comes to mean "pagan"
The name Hellene came to mean "pagan" with the institutionalisation of Christianity in the first centuries and it retained that meaning until the end of the millennium, during which the early Christian church played an instrumental role in accelerating the transition. It is believed that contact with Christian Jews led some Christians to use Hellene as a means of religious differentiation. Jews, like Greeks, distinguished themselves from foreigners, but unlike Greeks, did so according to religious rather than cultural standards.

Rome's domination of the Greeks enhanced the prestige of the religious institutions that remained intact. Early Christians adopted the religious differentiation of humankind, and so the meaning of the word Hellene as a cultural attribute became marginalized by its religious element, which eventually supplanted the older meaning entirely. Eventually, Christians came to refer to all pagans as Hellenes."

BTW

Are you proud of your schismatic bishop now? He is playing politics as much as our bishops do. Therefore, you are no better by any means...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by Relax be

We should have a Macedonian language section on this forum, you can have people like Victor or Edessa or others as the moderators, that can understand the language.

I think that the language section should be called "New church Slavonic", since it is a descendant of the Old church Slavonic...

[Relax be]

Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis

I think that the language section should be called "New church Slavonic", since it is a descendant of the Old church Slavonic...

Well we can negotiate and use a double name formula????

[zefs]

The Fyroman church is unrecognized , like their culture and their pseudotranslated state propoganda bible....

[zefs]

I wish I understood Bulgarian to speak to Relax Be.