Amazing BBC documentary about Balkan wars, dividing Macedonia, ethnic cleansings...

[bonaqua]

A French philanthropist Albert Khan came in Macedonia one century ago and made the first photos in colour which were amoung the first of that kind in history. The period threated is before and after the Balkan wars. the most of the pictures are from Bitola (Monastir) and Solun (Salonika). These are amazing photos. I hope that this videos will clear some things about what is Macedonia, who are Macedonians, our national identity etc.

There is one Greek historian (Dr. Christina Koulouri from the Peloponnese University) in the first video who speaks about the exodus made in Macedonia after the Greeks came here. She says:

Maybe some of them had to leave their homes, maybe some of them were killed."

Maybe? Maybe there were Balkan wars and maybe not? Is this some alchemy-history constructed by Greece. You don't remember the year 1913 (hundred years ago) and you remember that Alexander was Greek (more than 2.000 years)?

In the second video is said:

The Greek soldiers occupied Salonika.

The only way possible to occupy some city is when that city belongs to someone else (Macedonia).

Macedonia was divided between Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia

It is clear that Macedonia existed separate from Greece in 1913 (eather that most of you claim that Macedonia was born in 1945)

The third video is about the ethnic cleansing in Greece on the new-occupied territories. This is so painful for those people who were chased out of their homes and left with nothing.

Please watch this BBC documentary carefully and maybe you can learn something about my country (Macedonia). I don't mean to disturb my Greek friends on this forum. I am just trying to defend my country and my nationality. My pride. That's all.

Europe on the Brink (PART 1)
Europe on the Brink (PART 2)
Europe on the Brink (PART 3)

I am glad that western historians know the real truth about Macedonia and i am thankful to BBC for this amazing documentary.

[Drama]

Yes, a nice documentary..

and of course the Greek soldiers "occupied" it in some way... because it belonged to someone else in that times.... it was STILL Ottoman Empire! What is so difficult to understand?

And later when you see the map with Salonika and Monastir they say:

Vlachs
Greeks
Slavic speaking
Bulgarophones
Gypsies
....
but where are the Macedonians?

And something else bonaqua:
The Greeks have never denied that your people had to leave the Greek territory! I know a lot of people (now they call themselves makedonci) here in Germany who were from the city Drama! And as we heared in the video... there were a lot of different people. Not only you.. So how can you say that the Greeks stole YOUR territory?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by bonaqua

A French philanthropist Albert Khan came in Macedonia one century ago and made the first photos in colour which were amoung the first of that kind in history. The period threated is before and after the Balkan wars. the most of the pictures are from Bitola (Monastir) and Solun (Salonika). These are amazing photos. I hope that this videos will clear some things about what is Macedonia, who are Macedonians, our national identity etc.

Do they actually mention you as "Macedonians"? I very much doubt that the original sources make such references...

Originally Posted by bonaqua

There is one Greek historian (Dr. Christina Koulouri from the Peloponnese University) in the first video who speaks about the exodus made in Macedonia after the Greeks came here. She says:


Maybe? Maybe there were Balkan wars and maybe not? Is this some alchemy-history constructed by Greece. You don't remember the year 1913 (hundred years ago) and you remember that Alexander was Greek (more than 2.000 years)?

Maybe there was a treaty of Neuilly about the exchange of populations between Greece and Bulgaria and maybe there wasn't such a treaty. Maybe you are just plain stupid for trying to tell that we did not believe that a war took place at 1912/13. No, you are CERTAINLY stupid...

Originally Posted by bonaqua

In the second video is said:

The only way possible to occupy some city is when that city belongs to someone else (Macedonia).

Maybe the Jews of Thessaloniki? You know, I am still trying to find a single modern Greek city where you people were a majority...

Originally Posted by bonaqua

It is clear that Macedonia existed separate from Greece in 1913 (eather that most of you claim that Macedonia was born in 1945)

Existed as what? As a separate country? As a region of the Ottoman empire? Or as a geographic designation used only in the west? Of course Macedonia exists since 700 B.C., but as what did it exist prior to 1912/13?

Originally Posted by bonaqua

The third video is about the ethnic cleansing in Greece on the new-occupied territories. This is so painful for those people who were chased out of their homes and left with nothing.

This is what happened to the Greeks of Bulgaria and Turkey, and the Bulgarians and Turks of Greece respectively. Check the treaties of Neuilly, Sevres and Lausanne.

Originally Posted by bonaqua

Please watch this BBC documentary carefully and maybe you can learn something about my country (Macedonia). I don't mean to disturb my Greek friends on this forum. I am just trying to defend my country and my nationality. My pride. That's all.

It doesn't mention your country. It mentions Macedonia. There is quite a difference...

Originally Posted by bonaqua

Europe on the Brink (PART 1)
Europe on the Brink (PART 2)
Europe on the Brink (PART 3)

I am glad that western historians know the real truth about Macedonia and i am thankful to BBC for this amazing documentary.

The western historians know some truths about Macedonia, and they know that you are not related to the Ancient Macedonians also. When shall you realize that?

Speaking of genocides, take a look at a real one that has been coming out just recently:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080518/...Wdfa44Uj6ROrgF

Or one of the worst peace time genocides:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit..._the_New_Order

[Amarantos]

Originally Posted by bonaqua

Please watch this BBC documentary carefully and maybe you can learn something about my country (Macedonia). I don't mean to disturb my Greek friends on this forum. I am just trying to defend my country and my nationality. My pride. That's all.

Europe on the Brink (PART 1)

IT DOES NOT TALK ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY. IT TALKS ABOUT THE GEOGRAPHICAL REGION AND GIVES A GEOGRAPHICAL SENSE TO THE WORD "MACEDONIA".

3:39 "OTTOMAN RULE IN EUROPE WAS AT AN END. BUT THE SCRAMBLE OVER ITS FORMER TERRITORY IN WHAT IS MODERN DAY MACEDONIA HAD ONLY JUST BEGUN"

6:OO JEWISH CHILD IN HIS MEMOIRS RECALLING LIFE IN THE DIVERSE SOCIETY OF THESSALONIKI "THE GROUP IN WHICH I WAS PLACED WAS MADE UP BY 3 FRENCH BOYS ,ONE GREEK, FOUR SPANISH JEWS, A SERB ,AN ARMENIAN, A TURK AND A MONTENEGRAN BOY"

NO "MACEDONIAN" BOY IN THE TURN OF THE CENTURY IN THESSALONIKI, ALTHOUGH ALL THE BOYS REFERED WERE ACTUALLY LIVING IN MACEDONIA? MAYBE CAUSE NO SUCH ETHNIC IDENTITY EXISTED AND THE TERM MACEDONIA DESCRIBED A GEOGRAPHICAL REGION? IT'S QUITE CLEAR, YES.

Originally Posted by bonaqua

There is one Greek historian (Dr. Christina Koulouri from the Peloponnese University) in the first video who speaks about the exodus made in Macedonia after the Greeks came here.
Maybe? Maybe there were Balkan wars and maybe not? Is this some alchemy-history constructed by Greece. You don't remember the year 1913 (hundred years ago) and you remember that Alexander was Greek (more than 2.000 years)?

OBVIOUSLY SHE IS TALKING ABOUT THE DRAMATIC WEIGHT-MEANING THE PICTURES HAVE IN THE CHRONOLOGICAL FRAME THEY WERE TAKEN.


Europe on the Brink (PART 2)


1:13 "AFTER THEIR VICTORY OVER THE OTTOMANS BOTH GREECE AND BULGARIA CLAIMED SALONIKA AS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS"

NO "MACEDONIANS" HERE TOO, TO CLAIM THE CITY? OBVIOUSLY NO.

4:30 "BUT WITHIN THIS COMPLEX MOSAIC ONE NATIONALITY IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. IN MACEDONIA FEW DESCRIBE THEMSELVES AS MACEDONIAN. MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO CONCEPTION OF WHAT IT MEANT TO BELONG TO A MACEDONIAN NATION"



FROM THIS MOMENT ON THE WORD "MACEDONIA" ASSUMES FOR THE VIEWER A SLAVIC ,IN A WIDER SENSE, MEANING. EXAMPLE IN THE NEXT VIDEO: BULGARIAN AND SERBIAN CHURCHES....

Europe on the Brink (PART 3)

...UNTIL THE FIRST COUPLE OF MINUTES, SINCE THEN THE GEOGRAPHIC SENSE IS ATTRIBUTED TO THE WORD "MACEDONIA" AGAIN.


SO, THE REASON WHY YOU DECIDE THAT THIS DOCUMENTARY IS ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY'S (FYROM) HISTORY ,EXCLUDING GREEKS , BULGARIANS, SERBIANS, JEWS ETC AND IGNORING THE GEOGRAPHIC MEANING GIVEN TO THE TERM "MACEDONIA" BY ITS AUTHOR, CAN ONLY BE CONSIDERED A MISTERY WELL HIDDEN IN YOUR MIND.

P.S
06:30 "THE MUSLIMS AND LATER THE JEWS OF SALONIKA WHERE SOME OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO PAY THE PRICE" (OF ETHNIC CLEANSING)

THIS PHRASE ALONE BETRAYS A VERY SUPERFICIAL APPROACH OF HISTORY.
ALTHOUGH WE SEE ONCE AGAIN THAT THERE IS NO REFERENCE TO A "MACEDONIAN" PEOPLE BUT TO MUSLIMS. YOU (SKOPJANS) ARE PART OF THE ORTHODOX "MACEDONIAN" CHURCH, NO?

[Andrew]

Bonaqua ..can you just grow up ???

How the hell do you think that we ALL balkanians retained our freedom from the Turks ??...with WAR !!! And how do you think that we formed our borders later when the Turks had gone ...with WAR !!!

What do you wanna show here ? ..that war is broutal and that it has casualties ??? Is there someone that doesn't know that ???

In modern (othoman and post-othoman period) terminology "Macedonia" is a geographical term defining the 3 OTHOMAN villaetia of Thessaloniki , Bitola and Skopje. That region was a multiethnic one being dwelt by Greeks , Serbs ,Bulgarians , Turks , Albanians , Vlachs , gypsies etc ....Not even one serius western historian or politician talked about "Macedonian" nation ...can't you get it ?

When borders were formed the Westerns said from tomorow who stays here is Greek ..who stays there is Bulgarian ...who stays in Asia Minor is Turk etc etc ..That caused massive populations ALL OVER the Balkans and Asia Minor.
We had 1,5 million Greeks that were forced to leave Asia Minor and East Thrace , there were Bulgarians forced to leave Greek Macedonia and move to Bulgaria ...there were Turks forced to leave Greece , Bulgaria and Serbia ...

Yet I'm tired hearing about you Vardaskians wanting ALL the glory on migrating from your homes . You felt Slavs and so moved on with the Slavs. From that point and on your history is part of the histories of the official states of Serbia and Bulgaria ...Your culture is Bulgarian , but you ended being part of Serbia and later Yugoslavia.

So my friend as in every war there are casualties. All these events that are so tragic to you for me and for all the other native Greeks of Macedonia mean LIBERATION , but we also had Greek Macedonians forced to leave Monastiri (Bitola) and other parts of your nowday country ..yet you don't see them crying about it all day like you !

[kostas68]

I think our friend Bonaqua suffers,as a vast percentage of his compatriots,by the well known <syndrome of Macedonitis>.It's a new kind of mental derangement that appeared for first time in FYROM,1991 and the common symptoms are:Whenever and wherever the patients hear or read something about Macedonia,they believe that it reffers exclusively to them,their country,their language,history e.t.c. and they start to cry:Here you are,we existed since 1900,1800,1500,Macedonia was partitioned,our Egean brothers are oppressed,the Greek fascists slaughtered them during the civil war,we want our land back,Makedonia na Makedontsite and many other unintelligible phrases.Unfortunately,this disease is incurable.

[Nick]

It's amazing that the documentary mentions no macedonian ethnicity, yet the Skops will somehow claim there was!? How deranged can a people get?

One thing i have learnt about these mongrels is they sure know how to twist a story.

[Truth Bearer]

So Bonaqua can you tell us where in the documentary they refer to u as "Macedonians"?????The lads have stripped you totally bare do you have a comment to say??

[Nick]

I quite liked this as well....

Enjoy Bonaqua!

Slavophone Greeks speak about themselves

YouTube - Slavophone Greeks speak about themselves " title="YouTube - Slavophone Greeks speak about themselves" target="_blank">YouTube - Slavophone Greeks speak about themselves

[johnalexis]

Originally Posted by bonaqua

A French philanthropist Albert Khan came in Macedonia one century ago and made the first photos in colour which were amoung the first of that kind in history. The period threated is before and after the Balkan wars. the most of the pictures are from Bitola (Monastir) and Solun (Salonika). These are amazing photos. I hope that this videos will clear some things about what is Macedonia, who are Macedonians, our national identity etc.

There is one Greek historian (Dr. Christina Koulouri from the Peloponnese University) in the first video who speaks about the exodus made in Macedonia after the Greeks came here. She says:


Maybe? Maybe there were Balkan wars and maybe not? Is this some alchemy-history constructed by Greece. You don't remember the year 1913 (hundred years ago) and you remember that Alexander was Greek (more than 2.000 years)?

In the second video is said:

The only way possible to occupy some city is when that city belongs to someone else (Macedonia).

It is clear that Macedonia existed separate from Greece in 1913 (eather that most of you claim that Macedonia was born in 1945)

The third video is about the ethnic cleansing in Greece on the new-occupied territories. This is so painful for those people who were chased out of their homes and left with nothing.

Please watch this BBC documentary carefully and maybe you can learn something about my country (Macedonia). I don't mean to disturb my Greek friends on this forum. I am just trying to defend my country and my nationality. My pride. That's all.

Europe on the Brink (PART 1)
Europe on the Brink (PART 2)
Europe on the Brink (PART 3)

I am glad that western historians know the real truth about Macedonia and i am thankful to BBC for this amazing documentary.

I don't want to upset you either but I am Macedonian and my family are Macedonian. We have always lived in North West Greece. As I posted on another forum, a 1904 population census in Kozani listed 12.000 Greeks and 300 Vlachs. No Slavs at all.

Stop this nonsense. Who gives a sh.. about what the BBC do or don't claim. This company has long since lost its credibility. It is now only a mouthpiece for the British government who have lost the world's respect with their lies and their sucking up to a war criminal like Bush. We don't recognize - or at least I don't recognize - the BBC as a trusted source. The English have their own agenda.

If you are of Greek descent then why not join with Greece - unless your grandparents committed crimes against other Greek citizens. If you are of Slavic descent then stop claiming to be what you are not.

Those who live in FYROM and are Greek should be proud to announce this to the world because of our heritage. What heritage do the Slavs have, apart from the one they are trying to steal.

John