Vlachs in FYROM (Split Thread)

[Ariadni_Nefeli]

Originally Posted by Cabalero

Obviously the Greeks will try to claim the Vlachs as Greeks. The Vlachs descend from an amalgamation of different ancient peoples of the Balkans who became Latins. Thats why Vlachs today can be grouped into different groups like; the Kutzovlachs, Hellino-Vlachos, Arvanito-Vlachs, Tsincars, Meglenites and the Aroumanians or Macedonian Vlachs(Macedo-Roumans). How ever i think the Greeks can make Greeks out the Vlachs that are in Greece only. The Vlachs in Macedonia ,that is FYROM for some Pure Greeks, are more slavic than greek speaking today. Some Vlachs in the big Centers of Macedonia during Ottoman times; like Saloniki and Monastiri, became Grecophile or Greek speaking Vlachs. Many Vlachs wanted to preserve their language and culture and resisted attempts from the Greek Churche's policies of Hellenization and the Greek Megali Ideaology. Vlachs from Macedonia supported, and militated for an independant Macedonia. There were Vlachs who became illustrious and famous members of the Macedonian Liberation Movement and many of the the Voivodes and Leaders of the IMRO were Vlachs. That is why the Greeks were not able to fully Hellenize the entire mountainous interior of Macedonia. How can Greeks claim the Vlachs of todays Macedonia(FYROM) as Greeks, when they dont even recognise their country as Macedonia. How can these Vlachs; who have made Macedonia their homeland for over two thousand years, be denied the right to feel and be Macedonian. The Vlachs these interesting yet noble people have culturally, politically and economically enriched and supported the Republic of Macedonia.

The Vlachs were never an amalgama because they were never a race. They were roman soldiers that lived in their own lands and they had the latin language and the language of the land they were living in, mostly in the mountains as cattle breeders.

This is why have so many different names for them.

So the Greek Vlachs, were the Greek Vlachs that were the bilingual roman soldier's descendants that live in the mountains of Greece.

The majority of Vlachs are Greeks and feel Greeks because the Greeks and the Greek language had always been the strongest in the Balkans, even in Roman times and Byzantium. The others were just either illiteral peasants, either Vlachs that were mostly latin Slavs later.

The most educated Vlachs were the Greeks. When Greece was under turkish occupation the Greek Vlachs were the most educated, the best traders, builders, scholars, founders, wood carvers, and jewel makers.

The Vlachs of Fyrom don't come to Greece because Fyrom doesn't accept to give them Greek visa and passports, and only wants to give the fyromians, and the don't accept that.

And Bakoyianni plays fool of course and doesn't give a damn about them...

What;s wrong Vardarskians? You don't like the fact that 200.000 Greeks in Monastiri say they are Greeks???

You have the right to say what ever craps you want, but it bothers you that REAL Greeks say they are Greeks and that you who speak about a non existent suppression DO SUPPRESS Greeks in Vardarska?

[Mygdonia]

Ariadni is 100% correct anyone with knowledge of military history will tell you the Byzantine Army through out its history was only spoken in Roman.

[samarina]

Originally Posted by Ariadni_Nefeli

The Vlachs were never an amalgama because they were never a race. They were roman soldiers that lived in their own lands and they had the latin language and the language of the land they were living in, mostly in the mountains as cattle breeders.

This is why have so many different names for them.

So the Greek Vlachs, were the Greek Vlachs that were the bilingual roman soldier's descendants that live in the mountains of Greece.

The majority of Vlachs are Greeks and feel Greeks because the Greeks and the Greek language had always been the strongest in the Balkans, even in Roman times and Byzantium. The others were just either illiteral peasants, either Vlachs that were mostly latin Slavs later.

The most educated Vlachs were the Greeks. When Greece was under turkish occupation the Greek Vlachs were the most educated, the best traders, builders, scholars, founders, wood carvers, and jewel makers.

The Vlachs of Fyrom don't come to Greece because Fyrom doesn't accept to give them Greek visa and passports, and only wants to give the fyromians, and the don't accept that.

And Bakoyianni plays fool of course and doesn't give a damn about them...

What;s wrong Vardarskians? You don't like the fact that 200.000 Greeks in Monastiri say they are Greeks???

You have the right to say what ever craps you want, but it bothers you that REAL Greeks say they are Greeks and that you who speak about a non existent suppression DO SUPPRESS Greeks in Vardarska?

ditto

[samarina]

Originally Posted by Mygdonia

Ariadni is 100% correct anyone with knowledge of military history will tell you the Byzantine Army through out its history was only spoken in Roman.

Re to the Byazantine army here's a wiki search. It was a sophisticated military machine with various ethnicities besides Greek and Latin elements. During the Turkish occupation, the Greek/Latin Arumans were the only non-muslims to carry guns and to have cavalry legally.It was an order up to Wallachia (order of dragons, eg Vladamir Tepes, the son of a dragon (dracula)

read also about Emperor John II Komnenos and "a Macedonian division maintained"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_army

[samarina]

Originally Posted by Ariadni_Nefeli

The Vlachs were never an amalgama because they were never a race. They were roman soldiers that lived in their own lands and they had the latin language and the language of the land they were living in, mostly in the mountains as cattle breeders.

This is why have so many different names for them.

So the Greek Vlachs, were the Greek Vlachs that were the bilingual roman soldier's descendants that live in the mountains of Greece.

The majority of Vlachs are Greeks and feel Greeks because the Greeks and the Greek language had always been the strongest in the Balkans, even in Roman times and Byzantium. The others were just either illiteral peasants, either Vlachs that were mostly latin Slavs later.

The most educated Vlachs were the Greeks. When Greece was under turkish occupation the Greek Vlachs were the most educated, the best traders, builders, scholars, founders, wood carvers, and jewel makers.

The Vlachs of Fyrom don't come to Greece because Fyrom doesn't accept to give them Greek visa and passports, and only wants to give the fyromians, and the don't accept that.

And Bakoyianni plays fool of course and doesn't give a damn about them...

What;s wrong Vardarskians? You don't like the fact that 200.000 Greeks in Monastiri say they are Greeks???

You have the right to say what ever craps you want, but it bothers you that REAL Greeks say they are Greeks and that you who speak about a non existent suppression DO SUPPRESS Greeks in Vardarska?

Ya forgot a prominant Arouman ,Georgio Stavros ,founder of the National Bank of Greece in 1843.

we're everywhere, even Moscow, .We got bucks, and smarts also (Chris Folias is a relative of mine)

Fyrom ,ya gotta recognize the 200,000 Greeks in your Sci-Fiction little open air ranch .....or be humiliated with this Greek trump card that your hiding the Greek community under Soviet style lies.

[Ariadni_Nefeli]

I have under careful surveillance for many years now this whole situation against the Greek Vlachs since 2001 when this demek Vlachos, Bletsas (buddy of Dimitras) went to the Antamoma of the Vlachs in Naoussa and started to talk about ''Vlach minorities'' and shit like that.

The Vlachs of course were so...infatuated from the things he said, that beat the shit out of him!

Of course Eleftherotipia (ios) fully covered his beaten ass...

Praktores...

Vlachs themselves made clear to the anti Greek State Department and EBLUL, THAT THEY ARE GREEKS AND NOT A MINORITY!

They are just Greeks who speak Latin and Greek.

[samarina]

Originally Posted by Ariadni_Nefeli

I have under careful surveillance for many years now this whole situation against the Greek Vlachs since 2001 when this demek Vlachos, Bletsas (buddy of Dimitras) went to the Antamoma of the Vlachs in Naoussa and started to talk about ''Vlach minorities'' and shit like that.

The Vlachs of course were so...infatuated from the things he said, that beat the shit out of him!

Of course Eleftherotipia (ios) fully covered his beaten ass...

Praktores...

Vlachs themselves made clear to the anti Greek State Department and EBLUL, THAT THEY ARE GREEKS AND NOT A MINORITY!

They are just Greeks who speak Latin and Greek.

That ex clown US ambassador to Greece Thomas Miller tried the same stunt also ,trying to get the Arumans to declare themselves a "minority".

what a sleazy deliberate plan to dismember Greece.

This will go down in history as a US led Orwellian botched plot worse than the stunts Stalin and Tito tried to do on Greece.

[Flipper]

Originally Posted by Cabalero

Obviously the Greeks will try to claim the Vlachs as Greeks.

Not all Vlachs...Just certain vlachs. In your country you have many Vlachs who claim to be Greeks.

[snowman30]

All the vlachs in greece are first greek and then vlachs.The vlachs in monastiri and krusovo are from the mosxopolis and konitsa area after their villages burned down by the turks around 1815.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by Cabalero

Obviously the Greeks will try to claim the Vlachs as Greeks. The Vlachs descend from an amalgamation of different ancient peoples of the Balkans who became Latins. Thats why Vlachs today can be grouped into different groups like; the Kutzovlachs, Hellino-Vlachos, Arvanito-Vlachs, Tsincars, Meglenites and the Aroumanians or Macedonian Vlachs(Macedo-Roumans). How ever i think the Greeks can make Greeks out the Vlachs that are in Greece only. The Vlachs in Macedonia ,that is FYROM for some Pure Greeks, are more slavic than greek speaking today. Some Vlachs in the big Centers of Macedonia during Ottoman times; like Saloniki and Monastiri, became Grecophile or Greek speaking Vlachs. Many Vlachs wanted to preserve their language and culture and resisted attempts from the Greek Churche's policies of Hellenization and the Greek Megali Ideaology. Vlachs from Macedonia supported, and militated for an independant Macedonia. There were Vlachs who became illustrious and famous members of the Macedonian Liberation Movement and many of the the Voivodes and Leaders of the IMRO were Vlachs. That is why the Greeks were not able to fully Hellenize the entire mountainous interior of Macedonia. How can Greeks claim the Vlachs of todays Macedonia(FYROM) as Greeks, when they dont even recognise their country as Macedonia. How can these Vlachs; who have made Macedonia their homeland for over two thousand years, be denied the right to feel and be Macedonian. The Vlachs these interesting yet noble people have culturally, politically and economically enriched and supported the Republic of Macedonia.

This is an interesting albeit ridiculus point of view since the Vlachs belong to different groups (as you said) and the most of them descended from the Western Balkans southwards all the way to Greece.

The trouble is, this migration has been documented, and it took place during the Middle Ages. Therefore, few Vlachs were in Macedonia during the antiquity. All the Latins south of the Jirecek line were probably Hellenized, except for a few isolated pockets, and the Jirecek line is as far north as Skopje...

Anyway. There are many Greek speaking people in your country who do *NOT* identify themselves as Greeks by choice. I would rather not comment upon them nor count them as Greeks, since they do not wish so themselves. The whole issue is the case of the Slavophone Greeks who are loyal Greeks - albeit on the reverse!

I'd better leave people choose their identity (but not steal my name) irrespectively of speech. I hope that the rest of you could just do the same, but there are always voices around that defy logic...