Vlachs in FYROM (Split Thread)

[snowman30]

Most of them dont speak-write modern greek and consider themselves,all of them, arrmani (greek in their dialect).

[samarina]

Originally Posted by snowman30

Most of them dont speak-write modern greek and consider themselves,all of them, arrmani (greek in their dialect).

There's a Crypto-Greek population there as in many other Balak countries eg Romania, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria. Turkey is another shipwreck example.

RE to Fyrom ,maybe this population of "armani" haven't organized( out of fear) and told the FYROM gov to give them the right to have greek instruction schools and a greek church franchise for orthodox service.

Could be also a neglect of the present and previous Greek govs.

[ZZm]

Originally Posted by snowman30

Victor asked me about my trips to the mountain vlach town of Krousovo northeast of Monastiri(bitola).Last time i was there in early january.My parents speak the vlach dialect as the majority of the people in the town.All those vlachs came to krousovo after the destuction of the greekvlach town Mosxopolis in 1815.They feel greek but you can see in their eyes fear as they feel neglected for many decades from the greek goverment and the greek church.Romanian orthodox church is trying to approach them with the help of the fyromian goverment as they try to cut off any connection with their greek past.THey feel brothers with the rest greek vlachs in Macedonia and wish the greek goverment will look to them as hybernated greeks.And most of all they are pro greek in the name issue despite pressure from skopian elements in the town.

What a bunch of crap!
On what drug where you when you saw fear in their eyes?
In my country everyone can determinate himself what ever he wants or feels like, unlike in your country where "everything" and "everyone" is a greek.
Did you saw fear in the eyes of Toshe Proeski, who has a vlach origin, when he shouted "I love you Macedonia" and "I'm a Macedonian" on every concert or a interview? Only maybe in your deluded mind!

[Ariadni_Nefeli]

Vlachs of Vardarska are Greek and feel Greeks and talk Greek in secret. Those who teach Greek in public to children are threatened and accept a great deal of pressure and obliged to use the fyrom flag inside the teaching classes.

Let's make clear some things about Vlachs.

http://troktiko.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post.html

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http://northmacedonians.blogspot.com/

Vlachs are not a ''race'' It refers to the way of life (mountain people, cattle breeders) and it refers to language (latin from the times they were Roman soldiers).

It has nothing to do with a ''nation'' or a ''race'' so every Vlach belongs to the place he lives and how he feels.

Vlachs of Greece (Tositsas, Averof, Zappas, Kolletis, Feraios, Patriarch Athinagoras, ) were Greeks, and Xirotiris, Koukoudis, Poulianos, Triantaffilidis have prove (anthropologically, ethnically, genetically ) that are Greek and live in the Balkan Peninsula since for ever. The drew away Rumanians and Italians all by them selves.

It is UNACCEPTABLE to loose valuable pieces of Greece because they have brainwashed us that any Greek who is bilingual or raised outside the Greek borders, is ''less'' Greek. This is why we have lost so many Greeks of Diaspora that way!

Many Greeks (East Romilia, Pontos, Asia Minor, North Epirus) were consumed for this reason, despite the facts that these Greeks were the most helpful in Greece and with many bright personalities.

[snowman30]

50 years of fathers tito propaganda ZZm is hard to get rid off.They are armani,greeks.

[snowman30]

Everyone in your vardarska is free as long he dont declare to be greek...the greek vlachs are under extreme pressure and you know it.

[Flipper]

In the following days I will upload a video from those areas. Most people in those villages are Vlachs speaking Greek. Even those who have forgotten the Greek identify themselves as Greek vlachs. There's a good example in the video i'm talking about where a woman is asked what she is and she answers "Vlacha Greca" in Latin.

[Flipper]

Originally Posted by Cadmus

Many Vlachs as TB stated live in the Ohrid area to, but i think they are more dispersed then in Krushevo, they are well integrated in Ohrid's districts but as far as i know always refer themselves as Vlach..

Actually my mom does have some Romanian blood in her since her grandma was a aristocrat from Romenia but she always lived there and had no ties with Greeks, so not all the Vlachs from Fyrom are Greek Vlachs but come actually from Romenia to.

Yeah, do not confuse the Greek Vlachs with others. Their ethnic background is based on their origins. Dr Tom Winnifrith stated that the answer to the Vlachs lies in the Roman era when all the nomad traders used Latin as Lingua Franca to communicate and formed what we now know as Vlachs. So, basically a Vlach can be anything depending on each Balkan country.

[Cabalero]

Obviously the Greeks will try to claim the Vlachs as Greeks. The Vlachs descend from an amalgamation of different ancient peoples of the Balkans who became Latins. Thats why Vlachs today can be grouped into different groups like; the Kutzovlachs, Hellino-Vlachos, Arvanito-Vlachs, Tsincars, Meglenites and the Aroumanians or Macedonian Vlachs(Macedo-Roumans). How ever i think the Greeks can make Greeks out the Vlachs that are in Greece only. The Vlachs in Macedonia ,that is FYROM for some Pure Greeks, are more slavic than greek speaking today. Some Vlachs in the big Centers of Macedonia during Ottoman times; like Saloniki and Monastiri, became Grecophile or Greek speaking Vlachs. Many Vlachs wanted to preserve their language and culture and resisted attempts from the Greek Churche's policies of Hellenization and the Greek Megali Ideaology. Vlachs from Macedonia supported, and militated for an independant Macedonia. There were Vlachs who became illustrious and famous members of the Macedonian Liberation Movement and many of the the Voivodes and Leaders of the IMRO were Vlachs. That is why the Greeks were not able to fully Hellenize the entire mountainous interior of Macedonia. How can Greeks claim the Vlachs of todays Macedonia(FYROM) as Greeks, when they dont even recognise their country as Macedonia. How can these Vlachs; who have made Macedonia their homeland for over two thousand years, be denied the right to feel and be Macedonian. The Vlachs these interesting yet noble people have culturally, politically and economically enriched and supported the Republic of Macedonia.

[samarina]

Originally Posted by Cabalero

Obviously the Greeks will try to claim the Vlachs as Greeks. The Vlachs descend from an amalgamation of different ancient peoples of the Balkans who became Latins. Thats why Vlachs today can be grouped into different groups like; the Kutzovlachs, Hellino-Vlachos, Arvanito-Vlachs, Tsincars, Meglenites and the Aroumanians or Macedonian Vlachs(Macedo-Roumans). How ever i think the Greeks can make Greeks out the Vlachs that are in Greece only. The Vlachs in Macedonia ,that is FYROM for some Pure Greeks, are more slavic than greek speaking today. Some Vlachs in the big Centers of Macedonia during Ottoman times; like Saloniki and Monastiri, became Grecophile or Greek speaking Vlachs. Some Vlachs in Macedonia resisted attempts from the Greek Churche's policies of Hellenization. Vlachs from Macedonia supported, and militated for an independant Macedonia. There were Vlachs who became illustrious and famous members of the Macedonian Liberation Movement and many of the the Voivodes and Leaders of the IMRO were Vlachs. That is why the Greeks were not able to fully Hellenize the entire mountainous interior of Macedonia. How can Greeks claim the Vlachs of todays Macedonia(FYROM) as Greeks, when they dont even recognise their country as Macedonia. How can these Vlachs; who have made Macedonia their homeland for over two thousand years, be denied the right to feel and be Macedonian. The Vlachs these interesting yet noble people have culturally, politically and economically enriched and supported the Republic of Macedonia.

A fair number of Latin speakers took up a Greek consciosness in the Romaic Autocracy and passed both their Latin and Greek languages on to their offspring for personal growth and for trade in both the west and east europe..

I'd think a fair amount in Fyrom associated with the labelling of "vlach' would jump at the chance to be united with Greece and a Greek passport since Greece has more economic security, more history, more desire and interest ,more sheep, and more ports of call than landlocked Fyrom with its single port on Lake Ochrid. lol

Why stay in Fyrom? its where the men are men and...the sheep are scared ...really scared!!! lol