PM Kostas Karamanlis is clear as about FYROM issue....

[akritas]

Today, intensive efforts are being made to resolve an issue that has been pending for 17 years regarding FYROM’s name. We have taken timely, courageous, sincere, and constructive decisions. We clearly spoke of a mutually acceptable solution on the basis of a truly compound name, with a clear qualification and valid for everyone. We took a huge step towards meeting the other side. There has been nothing from Skopje but messages of a persisting intransigence that is alien to the European mindset.

Precious time was thus lost. Not because of Greece. These past few months, we have responsibly made it clear that without a mutually acceptable solution the road to NATO cannot be opened for our neighbouring country. It cannot be invited to join. Allied relations cannot be built on pending issues with a negative impact on neighbourly relations. Relations of solidarity cannot be built. Stability and cooperation cannot be founded.

• The conclusion from the latest meeting between the Personal Envoy of the UN Secretary-General for the Greece-FYROM talks and the representatives of the two countries is that we are some distance from reaching a mutually acceptable solution. The conclusion is that efforts within the framework of the United Nations must continue. We have addressed – and are still addressing – the issue in a responsible and determined manner, which no one can call into question.
• We stated clearly and responsibly that we are pursuing a solution that cannot serve as a means of support for unacceptable and historically groundless policies; that cannot be used as a vehicle for nationalist and irredentist mindsets; that cannot serve mindsets of instability, mindsets dating back to the Balkans’ worst days, mindsets that do not comply with the European future.
• We clearly and unequivocally said that we need a solution on the basis of a substantially compound name. We explained that such a solution cannot be restricted to a description of the neighbouring country’s system of government. That is of no concern to us. Nor can we have a solution that is just on paper. There cannot be a false solution. We need a solution that is clear, practical, thorough and feasible in all aspects. A solution that is valid for everyone. A solution for every use. At the same time, we have made it clear that simple statements of agreement do not suffice. A solution is needed that will not permit any violations or retractions. A solution ratified by the UN Security Council. A solution with the “final seal” of the United Nations. The state of affairs and any domestic developments in the neighbouring country cannot serve as an alibi or an excuse. Manoeuvres and political expediencies are not acceptable. A false solution is no solution at all.

Our positions are clear and firm. Our positions are responsible and constructive. Greeks want to have their neighbours as partners and allies. But allied and partner relations cannot be built on serious pending issues. The objectives of stability and progress are not served in this way. This is clear, self-evident, unequivocal.

[Excerpts from Prime Minister Mr. Kostas Karamanlis’ speech on foreign policy before the governing party’s Parliamentary Group]

[Dimitar. M]

[quote=akritas;62990]


[font=Verdana]Today, intensive efforts are being made to resolve an issue that has been pending for 17 years regarding FYROM’s name. We have taken timely, courageous, sincere, and constructive decisions.

And what constructive decisions are that? The embargo maybe.

Originally Posted by akritas

We took a huge step towards meeting the other side.[/u][/b] There has been nothing from Skopje but messages of a persisting intransigence that is alien to the European mindset.

I really wan't for Karamanlis to elaborate this ,,huge step'' they made because i don't see it? And Skopje for his information aprooved to participate in talks regarding her name even thought she didn't had to. If that is a ''persisting intransigence'' then .

Originally Posted by akritas

These past few months, we have responsibly made it clear that without a mutually acceptable solution the road to NATO cannot be opened for our neighbouring country[/b]. [b]It cannot be invited to join.

I don't know why does he use the word ''mutually acceptable''.
He should simply say ,,if you don't accept what we want, we will Veto''. Simple as that, no need to hide between words and represent himself as the victims and good gyes.

Originally Posted by akritas

[*][font=Verdana]We clearly and unequivocally said that we need a solution on the basis of a substantially compound name.

Didn't someone told him that Republic of Macedonia(Skopje) is a compound name that differs the country from the Greek region.

Originally Posted by akritas

A solution for every use.

So now not only in international use but we should use the new name home too. He tells us how we should call our country.

Originally Posted by akritas

A solution ratified by the UN Security Council. A solution with the “final seal” of the United Nations. The state of affairs and any domestic developments in the neighbouring country cannot serve as an alibi or an excuse.

UN presented the name ROM(Skopje). What's the problem. It is geographical.

[Draco]

Dimitar, Karamanlis is not disputing the name "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)", he is disputing how it should be used. The proposal is a double name: that ROM (S) be used only Greece and in international organizations. This is worse (from the Greek point of view) than the current situation (the use of the name "FYROM" has become a double name)!

Karamanlis wants you to change your constitution. Otherwise veto and we'll wait for the Albanians to become majority and they'll change the name.

[Dimitar. M]

Originally Posted by Draco

Dimitar, Karamanlis is not disputing the name "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)", he is disputing how it should be used. The proposal is a double name: that ROM (S) be used only Greece and in international organizations. This is worse (from the Greek point of view) than the current situation (the use of the name "FYROM" has become a double name)!

Karamanlis wants you to change your constitution. Otherwise veto and we'll wait for the Albanians to become majority and they'll change the name.

Well you got it wrong. The double formula for Macedonia is ,, one name for Greece'' and the ''constitutional for the others''(bilateral and internationaly).
That's the double formula.

Greece represents the other side ,,one name for every use''.


Now if he talks about compromise, then he should accept compromise which is ROM for home and bilateral use , and another name, ROM(Skopje) for international use. That's a compromise from 2 different sides.

But as i said what do you people know about compromise. Karamanlis thinks that if he tells a lie 100 times it will come true.
,,We are constructive the others are not'' ,,we wan't compromise'' BLA BLA BLA.

PS: If you wait for the Albanians to become the majority in our country then you will wait minimum 50 years. Good luck.

[Drama]

Originally Posted by Dimitar. M

PS: If you wait for the Albanians to become the majority in our country then you will wait minimum 50 years. Good luck.

So you think that the Albanians will be the majority in your country?... Why?

[Amarantos]

Originally Posted by Draco

Karamanlis wants you to change your constitution. Otherwise veto and we'll wait for the Albanians to become majority and they'll change the name.

By now, i'm for the second option. Fyromians ,as their foreign minister demonstrated in the past with the sisyphos story he quasi-reminded us in the past, are fond of the hellenic mythology. So, they should practice the hybris-nemesis motif. Where nemesis place "the Albanians will become majority and they'll change the name".

[Dimitar. M]

Originally Posted by Drama

So you think that the Albanians will be the majority in your country?... Why?

They have 6 children.

In 50 years if you keep up this way they will be around 30-40% in Greece too.

[Amarantos]

they are not a minority in Greece. If the government decides so , those acused of crimes or having relevant background can be expelled. You can not expell "macedonians" from your country. ;-)

[prudence]

Originally Posted by Dimitar. M

They have 6 children.

In 50 years if you keep up this way they will be around 30-40% in Greece too.

That's not necessarily true...my mother's village in southern greece had three Albanian worker families, and none of them had more than 2 kids each. Two of those families have since gone back to Albania. The one that stayed has become fairly Hellenized (baptized Orthodox by Greeks; the son married a local girl). And these are ethnic Albanians, not Northern Epirot Greeks!

[Truth Bearer]

Mitso M you are a Novomakedonijan welcome to the civilised world.