The winer of the battle over the name Macedonia?

[dellux]

Get real guys.
After all theese 17 years this "name issue" and the fight between Macedonia and Greece, anyone can tell that Greece is loosing the battle. About 120 countries recognised Republic of Macedonia by it's constitutional name. Among them : USA, Rusia, China, Canada, Italy, Netherland, Bulgaria, Croatia, Turkey, Serbia, Ukraine, Austria, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Hungary, Chech Republic, Belarus, Armenia, Bosnia, Paraguai, Malaysia, Pakistan, Iran and many more. We need 7-8 more countries to recognise us by the constitutional name and there would be 2/3 majority in the UN and we can achive recognition of the name Republic of Macedonia in the UN.
Here in Macedonia it's all clear. The name or Nato? The name of course. We dont need Nato. Nato and USA need us and thats why we are going to enter Nato no matter what Greece say. Greek veto is not only NO to Macedonia, but also big NO to USA and the all Nato members who decided to accept Macedonia, Albania and Crotaia. I bet that Karamanlis and Bakoyani are very worried and would think twice before put the veto. The Veto would mean international insolation for Greece.
I dont know whether you heard the latest news that George Bush sent message to Karamanlis: "Forget about the Veto. If you put veto on Macedonia, next day after the Nato summit there would be a wave of another 10 countries recognising Macedonia by it's constitutional name." Also yesterday was released the Minority report from the State of department, critisizing Greece for not recognising the existance of the Macedonian minority in Northern greece. The number of 2.500.000 people who declare themselves as macedonians is very big to ignore. Sooner or later the truth will come.
At the meeting of FM in 8 countries (Turkey, Slovenia, Netherland, Denmark, Italy, Hungary ...) defended Macedonia and Turkey said that if Greece puts veto on Macedonia, Turkey will put veto on Croatia and Albania. Either the 3 countries will enter Nato or nobody enters.
Another thing. The international diplomatic rules say that one country can use Veto only once. If Greece puts veto on Macedonia's Nato invitation, there is no way that anyone will tolerate Greek veto on Macedonia entering EU. Europe and the world can not play childish games with one country (Greece).
Remember this: The Greek right to veto Macedonia's Nato entering does not give Greece a right for choosing the new name for Macedonia. What the hell you are thinking with proposing the "new names" for us? Who gave you that right? Why dont you change your name instead?
The international patience for Greece's problem with the name Macedonia is getting smaller and i think that you are aware of it.
So, everybody here in Macedonia is hoping for Greek veto. That would be a great victory for Macedonia, not for Greece. Greece will be pushed from all over the world and Greece should be responcible for the future of the Balcan.
Why do you think USA pushes so hard Macedonia to enter Nato? USA like us? No. Think global and you will realise that NATO must enter Macedonia.
It's so pathetic that Karamanlis puts the stability of his goverment before the stability of the Balcan. Karamanlis keeps Greek media occupied with the name issue to hide the other issues that the goverment is responcible for.

At the and i will say that i dont hate Greece and Greek people. Even if you are so rude and say bad words for us i dont hate you. I like you guys. I wish we could have greater economic cooperations. A lot of Greek people come to Bitola, i have been to Greece for holiday, a lot of Greek companies work here... etc. But this name issue just keeps separating us. That's a pitty.

[Mygdonia]

There will be a Veto if there is no clear cut compromise.

Albania will get in NATO before Fyrom if an agreement is not reached.

We find your irredentism and intransigence as paethetic, you have no place in NATO.

Albania will ask for concessions within NATO to rip your 30% of land away from you.

Obviously all this can stop tomorrow. But you are so far gone in your nationalistic dementia, propaganda and self-delusions there is no other answer but to Veto you into isolation.

I think Greece gave enough warnings, now it's too late to back peddle.

[zefs]

Are you for real. You need to stop your revisionism. You need to change your name to Republic of Macedonia-Skopje or Slavo-Macedonia. You need NATO to protect you from a future NATO member Albania before you country dissapears. By the way we have the upper hand, we have the veto and we control a good portion of your economy. Tsar Tsamuel and you have one thing in common. You are both Bulgarians who will fall to the power of the Greeks.

[dellux]

Dont be so sure about the Albania and Croatia entering Nato if you put veto on us. It seems that Greek media is informing you selectively. Why did Bakoyani visit Turkey next day after the FM meeting? Turkey is strong supporter of Macedonia and said loud and clear: If there is Veto for Macedonia, there will be veto for Croatia and Albania. Greece should think twice about the veto.
If you are asking the people in Macedonia, go ahead and put that VETO once. Dont just wave with the Veto in your hand. Go ahead. Put it. We are expecting your veto. With the veto you will win the battle for Nato, but Macedonia will win the battle for the name. Cheers!

[Hellas7]

Originally Posted by dellux

The number of 2.500.000 people who declare themselves as macedonians is very big to ignore. Sooner or later the truth will come.

2.500.000 is the number of Greeks who identify themselves as Macedonians in the article. It states that as the reason for the fuss over the "minority" calling themselves "Macedonians".

Unless you actually believed in your twisted minds the Greek government is trying to deny and hide 2.5 million "Macedonians" of Macedonia.


Idiots.

[Mygdonia]

Turkey has been putting VETO's on Cyprus to enter NATO for years.

The serious mistake you made was aligning yourselves with Turkey..as they set the precedent.

Turkey has no right to VETO Croatia & Albania they have no arguements to put a Veto on them. They need to go to Brussels and spell out their reasons - they don't have any reasons.

Greece went to Brussels and already laid out the future which the consensus of NATO par 1 or 2 stood by Greece's side.

Greece is an ally in NATO, you are not.

You will be VETO'd because of your disgraceful attitude, irredentism, intransigence & propaganda.

[Draco]

Welcome, Dellux.

Regarding the "name issue", I don't think there ever will be a winner or a loser. Even if all countries but Greece recognize your "constitutional name", even if the UN does, the name "FYROM" will never go away completely and will remain a stain on your "identity". You have joined organizations such as the Council of Europe, are recognized by the EU etc, with the name FYROM and changing this kind of thing requires unanimity, something Greece is not likely to give.

You claim that you can join NATO regardless of Greek wishes. This is fallacious both legally and practically, your membership will be vetoed unless a compromise is reached, this is something you'll have to deal with. NATO does not need you, once you (and Serbia) are surrounded by NATO members, you'll be immobilized anyway, you might as well be an extension of Serbia except with no serious armed forces. Karamanlis and Bakoyannis as well as all parliamentary political parties have agreed that veto should be used unless the dispute is solved, too much political pressure, it's impossible for them to back down. Regarding that alleged message by Bush, who cares. You'll be out of NATO and your Albanians are a ticking time bomb (especially since Albania will also be left out of NATO).

Regarding the US State Dept's human rights report, their report on FYROM was more critical than the one on Greece. It also struck at the heart of any democracy which requires free and fair elections, by affirming that FYROM lacks them.

As for that "international diplomatic rule" you claim, it doesn't exist, sorry.

You say that "the Greek right to veto Macedonia's Nato entering does not give Greece a right for choosing the new name for Macedonia". We aren't choosing a name for you, we are imposing a requirement on your NATO membership that you have no outstanding issues with your neighbors, this is Greece's legal right. The choice is yours: name or NATO (=stability and, in the long term, territorial integrity).

Regarding the rude language Greek nationalists sometimes use, it's equivalent to the rude language your nationalists use. Nationalists should not be taken seriously.

[Mygdonia]

Yes we have claimed them as a minority, they even have their own political party - Rainbow - So stop your delusions. They simply are not Macedonians...you can't even speak the language.

[Hellas7]

Originally Posted by dellux

You Greeks are masters for twisting history. Dont explain to me. I know the history. Try to convice the USA and the rest of the world about your version of history. I have no need to fight with you over this issue. The Macedonian minority exist in North Greece and Greece is not alowing them to claim their nationality. Some democracy you have .........

You have very little ability for comprehension don't you.


Fine, keep living in your dream.

[Hellas7]

Uh Oh...

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/8602/

FYROM Leader Hints At 'Name' Compromise

13 March 2008 Skopje _ FYROM might accept to incorporate an adjective into its constitutional name in a bid to avoid a Greek veto of its bid to join NATO, the country’s president Branko Crvenkovski told media Thursday.

“If we find a formulation using some kind of adjective that would not harm our national identity but instead would perhaps give an additional description to our state’s system, I think that we could achieve both goals to get an invitation for NATO and to protect our national identity,” Crvenkovski said.

Keep talking little Skopjan. Your country is collapsing before your eyes.