Maknews Article

[Slayer]

Hey guys

I read an article on the Maknews site about a new book on Macedonian history. This book was translated in English by a lady named Margaret Morse. As her email address was included on this particular article:
http://www.maknews.com/html/macedoni...tory_book.html
I decided to write to her to clarify some points, and this is what I wrote.

Hello Margaret
>
> I read with great interest your promotion of the new book "'Ancient
History
> of Macedonia and the Balkans According to Western Authors' (ISBN
> 0-9752453-2-5, Brisbane" as was promoted on the maknews wbsite
> http://www.maknews.com/html/macedoni...tory_book.html.
> I am not here to debate with you the question of Macedonian History or
> Macedonian identity. What I would like to ask you is a clarification on
what
> is meant when you write "In this way, introducing to those who attended
the
> promotions and were interested in the content of the book, which is full
of
> facts about the existence of Macedonians and the Macedonian state, from
> ancient time, the author mentioned his usage of the quotes from ancient
> authors including some Greeks, from some so-called 'Greeks',and from
Western
> Authors."
> Can you please explain what the difference is between a Greek and a
> so-called Greek?
> If there is more then one type of Greek on this earth then I am interested
> in knowing about this ground breaking research that you have conducted
which
> has lead you to this conclusion. As far as I knew there was only one type
of
> Greek so you may appreciate the confusion I am having in understanding who
> the so-called Greeks are.
> Eagerly awaiting your response.
>
> Yours Sincerely
>
>

and this is the response I received:

Dear ......,

I will pass your message to Janko to reply, although his english is not so
good. Maybe we will draft a reply together this weekend. I am sure the
meaning of that statement is contained in his earlier book 'Discoveries
about and Important Events in Macedonian history'. There is a lot of new
research which documents the differences in DNA material between today's
Greek people and the Macedonian people. There is also the issue of borders.
There are a lot of 'Macedonian' people living in Greece, or what is now
known as Greece, particularly the Aegean area. There is also something in
the books about at what stage 'Greece' became called Greece and how in
history books people are often named 'Greek' long before that state existed.
But Janko could no doubt explain all this better than I can. I am more the
translator.

Margaret Morse

Can you believe this lady, has she ever stopped top think that the DNA difference between Skops and Greeks is because they are Slavs and we are Greeks. Then we have the little history lesson about the modern greek state, (FYROM began in 1991) and finaly the lesson about the Skop minority in what is "now known as Greece".

Guys I can`t wait to write a response, and I might wait for the reply her and the author Janko will send me. I`m hoping that you guys can help with this response as I would love to write an articulate and concise response to whatever theories they may come up with.

[Orphic_Hymn]

I particularlly enjoyed this part of her responce :

There is also the issue of borders.

But what can we expect .... another alleged historic research that openly propagandises nationalism and disrespect to internationally signed treaties by making claims on a neighbor's lands...

Or what about this one :

There is also something in the books about at what stage 'Greece' became called Greece and how in history books people are often named 'Greek' long before that state existed.

I'd love to hear this one and of course be given the chance to rub in their face the texts of Hesiod that in the 8th cent BC. refers to "the whole race of the Hellenes" in Works and Days, 528, and to all the region as "Hellas" in his admonition to his brother Perses in Works and Days, 653.

The logical question would be : when did these Slavo-Bulgars refer to themselves as Makedones prior to the 1860's ???

[Makedonia25]

That is insaneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! hahahahahahaha She probably based her work on this pathetic excuse for a paper which links Greeks to Ethiopians :thumbs:

Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit

Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd. Sir

They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.

The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute. We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit. Neil Risch
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA Alberto Piazza
Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry,
University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of
Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo (Mourant et al., 1976).

[akritas]

Fellows don't give to much attention. And I am explain the reason.

How many Skopjans Live in Australia ?
90.000

How many books must sell in order the publisher must have proffit ? At least 2000.
Now tell how many Skopjans will be buy this book ? Think it

Also the Skopjan propaganda as about the non-Greekness of the ancient macedonians collapse as sandy tower. You see they try now to involve the genetics because more of the people doesn't know the issue.

Makedonia 25 mention:

HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo (Mourant et al., 1976).

also in relative thread you can read many of the anti-argyment regarding the issue.

We are Greeks and them are Skopjans.
Our argyments is the Greek heritage.Those are the propaganda.
Our arsenal are the evidence. Its are the lies

[Slayer]

Guys I got the response, you will love this one:

Dear ...,
I have a reply from Janko which I now copy and put in this letter to you:

Dear Mr. ...,

Detailed answer on your question requires long reply. Anyway, in short I
shall explain why some of the ancient authors in the book were called "Greek
authors", while some other "so called Greek authors".

You see, among large part of todays' authors almost all of the Balkan and
even Asia Minor ancient authors and other historical figures were called
"Greeks". But, it was not true!

There are many examples that a lot of them WERE NOT GREEKS AT ALL! Lets'
take for example Homer. If he really exsisted (there is a doubt about his
existance as an individual person), he was definitely not a Greek. He was
born in Lydia (Asia Minor area) and Lydians were not Greeks, but a separate
people with their own Lydian language (please check more details about this
in any encyclopedias or other serious works about them). The "Greek"
language in which he wrote his works was only a later translation made in
Alexandria of the original language on which they were written.

Or lets take as an example Cleopatra VII and her ancestors Ptolemais. Many
modern authors are treating them as "Greeks". But they were pure
Macedonians. The founder of this dynasty Ptolemy was closest friend and
(very probably) a half-brother of Alexander the Great. Ancient Greek
historian Plutarch in his biography about Antony cleary wrote that a native
language of the Ptolemaic dynasty (including Cleopatra) was "Macedonian".

Or let's take as an example Seleucid dynasty, who were also Macedonians...
and a lot of such similar examples.

Why this misinterpretation happened? Of course because of the long-term
reflection of the modern Greek state propaganda (since 19 century) and its
supporters all over the world.

But, no one can cover the truth! Time is comming when slowely all of these
data is coming at the surface and only a metter of time will be when this
will be widely accepted (which already happens).

Hope this clears things up for you,
Regards,
Margaret.

Should we even bother with a response??

[akritas]

Slayer

apo pou na arxiso kai apo pou na teleioso
I told you and befor that writers of this type want to sell books. Including of course and Greeks not only Skopjans.
Now i tell my opinion in the argyments of this gentleman.

Homer
The life and the birth place of the Homer was unkowns. The first ancient testimony that mention his life came from Herodotus

for Hesiod and Homer I suppose were four hundred years before my time and not more, and these are they who made a theogony for the Hellenes and gave the titles to the gods and distributed to them honours and arts, and set forth their forms
book 2, fragment 53

As you see Homer wrote for the genealogy of the Hellenes (called them Acheans, Danaos,Myrmidones) and for Pelasgians e.t.c.
Texts of the Iliad and the Odyssey existed from at least the 6th century BC, and probably for a considerable span of time before that. The language that written was the archaic Greek with a lot Ionian influence and not the Koine language that adopted from the Alexandrias writers 400 years later.The Greek Alphabet was introduced in the early 8th century, so that it is possible that Homer himself was of the first generation of rhapsodes that were also literate. Also remark that Homer poems at the first "edition" were an oral traditions and not written.

Cleopatra
As I see this author use the common language of the Skopjan propagnda.They said Macedonians and not Greek!!!! Withis logic also and Ionians or Epirotans were not Greeks but deffrent genus from the Greek.
Cleopatra is a Greeks name ,
A salutary warning about the dangers of using etymology to read too much into an ancient Greek name is provided by the well-known case of Myrrhine, which means ‘myrtle wreath’. Myrrhine was a popular name for freeborn girls in classical Athens of the fifth and fourth centuries BC and in the New Comedy of Menander we often find it as the name of older married women.
Sophocles does not name Cleopatra here for he had no need to. His Athenian audience was already more than familiar with the story. The sorry tale of Cleopatra and her barbarous husband Phineus had already provided the material for several Attic tragedies. In 472 BC Aeschylus had presented a Phineus along with his extant play Persians. At some later date Sophocles himself had also written two plays called Phineus as well as a third on the topic called the Tympanistae (The Tambourine Players) about which even less is known. All these plays are now lost, but in them the myth of Cleopatra would obviously have been elaborated much more fully than it is in the Antigone. .Also Homer mention the name of Cleopatra in a quote with Achilles.
The legend say that the Cleopatra was the child of Boreas, wind-god of the North, and Oreithyia, a daughter of the legendary Athenian king Erechtheus, whom Boreas had carried off to the wilds of Thrace.
This was in brief the story of the name of Cleopatra.

Now as about the Dynasty. Is a long story and in brief I can stay in this one.
Do you how called herself:
Cleopatra Thea Neotera Philopator kai Philopatris.

Under Ptolemos dynasty the Greek language was been the official language and the not supposing ghost language.Actually you know very well that the Skopjan propagnda insists in the argyment that Macedonians were billiterals but still waiting to see any evidence from the supposing non Greek language.

Finally Slayer, all the Universities, authors(even and Saecspear) write as about hers origin that doubtfully was Macedonian and not Skopjan.
Greek Archaic language survive first via oral and then after the dicovering of the writing we know so much as about this language.But the supposing non-Greek Macedonian language still is invisible and only in the Skopjans minds and propaganda books.

[Slayer]

Originally Posted by akritas

Slayer

apo pou na arxiso kai apo pou na teleioso
I told you and befor that writers of this type want to sell books. Including of course and Greeks not only Skopjans.
Now i tell my opinion in the argyments of this gentleman.

Homer
The life and the birth place of the Homer was unkowns. The first ancient testimony that mention his life came from Herodotus

As you see Homer wrote for the genealogy of the Hellenes (called them Acheans, Danaos,Myrmidones) and for Pelasgians e.t.c.
Texts of the Iliad and the Odyssey existed from at least the 6th century BC, and probably for a considerable span of time before that. The language that written was the archaic Greek with a lot Ionian influence and not the Koine language that adopted from the Alexandrias writers 400 years later.The Greek Alphabet was introduced in the early 8th century, so that it is possible that Homer himself was of the first generation of rhapsodes that were also literate. Also remark that Homer poems at the first "edition" were an oral traditions and not written.

Cleopatra
As I see this author use the common language of the Skopjan propagnda.They said Macedonians and not Greek!!!! Withis logic also and Ionians or Epirotans were not Greeks but deffrent genus from the Greek.
Cleopatra is a Greeks name ,
A salutary warning about the dangers of using etymology to read too much into an ancient Greek name is provided by the well-known case of Myrrhine, which means ‘myrtle wreath’. Myrrhine was a popular name for freeborn girls in classical Athens of the fifth and fourth centuries BC and in the New Comedy of Menander we often find it as the name of older married women.
Sophocles does not name Cleopatra here for he had no need to. His Athenian audience was already more than familiar with the story. The sorry tale of Cleopatra and her barbarous husband Phineus had already provided the material for several Attic tragedies. In 472 BC Aeschylus had presented a Phineus along with his extant play Persians. At some later date Sophocles himself had also written two plays called Phineus as well as a third on the topic called the Tympanistae (The Tambourine Players) about which even less is known. All these plays are now lost, but in them the myth of Cleopatra would obviously have been elaborated much more fully than it is in the Antigone. .Also Homer mention the name of Cleopatra in a quote with Achilles.
The legend say that the Cleopatra was the child of Boreas, wind-god of the North, and Oreithyia, a daughter of the legendary Athenian king Erechtheus, whom Boreas had carried off to the wilds of Thrace.
This was in brief the story of the name of Cleopatra.

Now as about the Dynasty. Is a long story and in brief I can stay in this one.
Do you how called herself:
Cleopatra Thea Neotera Philopator kai Philopatris.

Under Ptolemos dynasty the Greek language was been the official language and the not supposing ghost language.Actually you know very well that the Skopjan propagnda insists in the argyment that Macedonians were billiterals but still waiting to see any evidence from the supposing non Greek language.

Finally Slayer, all the Universities, authors(even and Saecspear) write as about hers origin that doubtfully was Macedonian and not Skopjan.
Greek Archaic language survive first via oral and then after the dicovering of the writing we know so much as about this language.But the supposing non-Greek Macedonian language still is invisible and only in the Skopjans minds and propaganda books.

Thanks Akritas. I don`t think I will waiste my time responding.
I think the common picture we are getting from these new age Historians from Skopje is that they write their fairytales, promote it as the truth and the little Skops who are looking for any piece of writing to back up their absurd claims buy these books. Authors like the one above are cashing in the naivety of the Skopjan people. SteFov, Stefou or whatever his name is has made alot of money doing this. But thanks for the information on Cleopatra. i have to admit that my ancient history knowledge is not as good as it should be, hence one of the reasons I enjoy coming to this forum so much.

[The Blood of Dorus]

Heres the knob Janko (holding the book) and his ugly bitch Margaret Morse - they are both from Brisbane, Australia and are most likely in a relationship. He bangs her and she translates his crap without even understanding what she is translating:



You can't expect any sort of logical and sensible response from these cretins.

[Slayer]

Originally Posted by The Blood of Dorus

Heres the knob Janko (holding the book) and his ugly bitch Margaret Morse - they are both from Brisbane, Australia and are most likely in a relationship. He bangs her and she translates his crap without even understanding what she is translating:



You can't expect any sort of logical and sensible response from these cretins.

Blood, I think you are on to something:thumbs:

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

That red flag with our star is our Greek symboL!!! I don't care if the background is red or blue, either way it was Greek even before Alexander and is still Greek today.