FYROM move on name ? What is it with the name?

[Lakonian]

Hey guys,

after you read this, can someone please explain to me that if we, the Greeks, win the name dispute what about the continious identity theft they are carrying out?

I mean what is to stop them from still carying on like they are now?

What would actualy be the outcome?

News From Kathimerini 2/6/07

President says would join NATO as FYROM; Athens response cautious

Athens yesterday issued a cautious response to comments made by the president of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), Branko Crvenkovski, during an interview with Kathimerini, according to which his country is prepared to join NATO under the name FYROM but will not make any concessions in the search for an official name in the long term.

«The situation is clear and there is no point in anyone wasting their energy with pointless tactics,» Foreign Ministry spokesman Giorgos Koumoutsakos said. If bilateral ties and regional cooperation are to be improved, Skopje needs to demonstrate good-neighborly behavior and abandon its irredentist logic opposite a member state of NATO and the EU, Koumoutsakos added, reiterating Athens's stance on the matter.

The ministry was reacting to comments made by Crvenkovski in a wide-ranging interview published in Sunday's Kathimerini. The FYROM president says his country is «ready to join NATO under the name used at the UN,» that is, FYROM. (FYROM is expected to be invited to join NATO next year along with Albania and Croatia.)

However, Crvenkovski makes it clear that Skopje will not back down in a dispute with Greece over Skopje's use of the name «Macedonia» in the long term, remarking, «We have already made too many concessions.» He said his people are keen to «rid ourselves of this anachronistic and degrading term,» meaning FYROM.

Crvenkovski rebuffed speculation that United Nations mediator Matthew Nimetz will abandon his mandate to find a solution to the name dispute, a rumor which has fueled talk of early elections in Greece. He also rejected accusations by Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis of intransigence and irrendentism on FYROM's part. «There is no reasonable argument that our constitutional name, nor the Republic of Macedonia as a state, could constitute a threat to Greece's territorial integrity,» he added.

Greece has threatened to veto Skopje's bids to join NATO and the EU under the name «Macedonia,» noting that it implies a claim by FYROM on a northern Greek province with the same name and could destabilize the region.

[Ehetlaios]

They want to join as FYROM before the name issue is resolved.

If they join, and they win the name issue, FYROM will become Macedonia.

So they will be in NATO as "Macedonia".

They think they're clever...

[Truth Bearer]

Fyrom will stay as fyrom and they will be known as Fyromians!!!!!

[Lakonian]

Guys im asking so what if we win the name or they do? What will be the final outcome. What excatly is gonna stop them from carrying on like they are already. I mean thise problem hasnt just sprung, it has been in the making.
And they have churches, they have schools, they have diaspora. I dont think they will just give up because some countries dont recognise them. And i mean they have support from major powers. My point is i think its more than juts the name.

They actulay believe they are descendents of Macedonians! We cannot stop that on a mental level. They educate there kids as we do.

There are countries that find these barbarians economicaly viable.


Im talking about the broarder picture. How do we tackle this?

[Truth Bearer]

We can't but remember time heals all wounds it will take a couple of generations but eventually they will change just like they did from Bulgarians to "Macedonians" and from that to Vardanians or Slavo Macedonians or whtever......

[olvios]

The self purpose is to stop the propaganda internaly and external of the so called Makedonskicrap and so on.If they are called fyrom it will change little.The whole state has to be destroyed or the propaganda to stop and reverse itself.

[Greece2006]

Fyrom joining as Fyrom is not solving anything cause they still have the name Macedonia in it. This is a very screwed up situation. Are Greece doing anything?

Can anyone tell me, If Fyrom win the name Macedonia, does that mean that Greek Macedonians can't be called Macedonian anymore and will Fyrom take Greek Macedonia from Greece? Anyone please?

What is wrong with Fyrom, they are causing so much grief for a name and history that doesn't even belong to them

[MKDNIA.3]

Originally Posted by Greece2006

Fyrom joining as Fyrom is not solving anything cause they still have the name Macedonia in it. This is a very screwed up situation. Are Greece doing anything?

Can anyone tell me, If Fyrom win the name Macedonia, does that mean that Greek Macedonians can't be called Macedonian anymore and will Fyrom take Greek Macedonia from Greece? Anyone please?

What is wrong with Fyrom, they are causing so much grief for a name and history that doesn't even belong to them

let me tell you what I think. Macedonia is recognised by 116 countries, including 3 permanent members (USA, CHINA and RUSSIA) . Great Britian has also un-officially recognised Macedonia as the name "macedonia" is used in bilateral issues. So, pursuing "recognition" is not an issue here for the politicians. We all know who has won the "name game", if you like to call it a game.

As for Greek Macedonians, not being able to call themselves macedonians is not true. The macedonian government has never stated anywhere that they want to monopolise the name. (Remember there is a place even called macedonia is the USA..lol).

As for Macedonia "taking Grk-Macedonia" from greece, is impossible, unless the Yanks, Russia or China see some advantage in invading greece on behalf of Macedonia (so they can obviously profit their own pockets), then perhaps, but maybe 1 in a million chance, so i wouldnt worry about that at all, so thats out of the question. An "invasion" might only occur is when Macedonia enters the EU, but only due to a population movement. These albanians keep pushing south, so you never know what the furure tells.


As for this so called "name game" as you like to call it, I will tell you a little story.
When Kiro Gligorov in the 90's decieded to rename Macedonia to fyroMacedonia, due to the VETO by greece he did that for a reason. ALthough he experienced a major backlash, there was even an assasination attempt on his life, he knew exactly what he was doing. Greece was jubilant, he was termed a traitor, but the motives behind this move was a strategy beyond imagination. He simply kept the name Macedonia with an added prefix. So in other words, the name Macedonia was never lost to begin with, so in other words the "name game" was over as soon as it begun and greece although at the time seemed like the victor, it was far from that. Kiro Gligorov these days is thanked by the politicians, because if it were not for him, the name definately wouldve been lost temporarily, but NEVER for eternity.

[Tsontos]

MKDNIA you do realise FYROM was never beleived to be and never considered a permanent settlement by either side? the FYR prefix was specifically a "temporary solution" under the interim accord until further negotiations would find a suitable name. In the same way any country who recongised the constitutional name recongised the name "until a bilateral agreement was attained". You're "story" is simplistic and wrong.

As for winning the name game, if FYROM want to stop Albanian agression and rectify a declining standard of living which is making thousands of "ethnic Maceodnians" take up Bulgarian citizenship, then it will have to realise entry to NATO and the EU will be when FYROM is truly recongised.

[MKDNIA.3]

Originally Posted by Voulgaroktonos

MKDNIA you do realise FYROM was never beleived to be and never considered a permanent settlement by either side? the FYR prefix was specifically a "temporary solution" under the interim accord until further negotiations would find a suitable name. In the same way any country who recongised the constitutional name recongised the name "until a bilateral agreement was attained". You're "story" is simplistic and wrong.

As for winning the name game, if FYROM want to stop Albanian agression and rectify a declining standard of living which is making thousands of "ethnic Maceodnians" take up Bulgarian citizenship, then it will have to realise entry to NATO and the EU will be when FYROM is truly recongised.

I know that it was never a permanent solution. In the 90's Greece was in a position to dictate any name if she wanted to but didnt. That was a major ERROR on greece's behalf, therefore a victory to macedonia becuase the name was retained no matter what prefix was chosen. So as for NATO entry i beg to differ, they are almost in, with or without name recognition. Once in NATO, then the name can be discussed.

Albanian agression is minimal at the moment, although I believe that something will errupt in the future, it is then when the problem will be solved once and for all, until then, if the politicians can keep them quiet, until NATO accession, then it wil be another bonus for Macedonia.

As for macedonians taking up dual-bulgarian citizenships, there is nothing wrong with that, there are macedonians doing the same with other countries. I know that the bulgarian dual-citizenship aplications are higher than any other countries surrouding Macedonia, that is true. Remember taking out a dual-citizenship with another country and actually moving to that country as a perminent residence are two totally seperate things. I have a dual citizenship as well, but i resixde in australia. The reason why I have a macedonian citzenship is so if it can benefit me in the future, then it wil be a bonus for me......simple!!