Foreign newspapers of 19th/20th c. about Macedonia

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by Jordan Piperkata

Is it a wrong assumption from my part? You give so much to the Macedonian cause if you know what I mean, so you are not from Macedonia then?

Jordan, what sort of a reply is that? You are not from Macedonia either - that is the Ancient lands of Makedon, as you shall find it in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M...an_Kingdom.jpg

Yet, you and your friends around here speak of Macedonia and Macedonians as if they have some relation to them. Why do YOU give so much to the Macedonian cause Jordan?

[Truth Bearer]

Originally Posted by Jordan Piperkata

Is it a wrong assumption from my part? You give so much to the Macedonian cause if you know what I mean, so you are not from Macedonia then?

Ok and if I am from Macedonia yr next question would be if I'm Pontian or a Asia Minorist(Mikra Asiatis) which I'm not.
Why do I have to be a Macedonian to be passionate about the cause?Why can't I be just a passionate Hellene who believes in the historical truth and despises lies and pseudo nationalism......Why can't we just sit together and talk why you cannot accept being called a Slavo Macedonian?Why I accept that in fairness Macedonia had many different people passing through and today we just can't exclusively have the name as neither can you.In ancient times the Macedonians were Greek had a Greek culture and spoke only Greek.Then we had the Romans come through then your ancestors the Slavs came and settled also in the area after becoming Christian of course in between all this of course we had many minor tribes come through like the Kelts,Goths,Avars,Bulgars,Arabs,Huns,(the Turkic ones)Cumans,Latins(Crusaders) and eventually the Ottomans who also brought the Ladino Jews(1460's onwards)so I ask you who then out of all these people has the right to call themselves Macedonian??The only dominant ones that survived the millenia where the Greeks,Slavs(Serbian or Bulgarian) and the Turks.The Vlachs and Albanians were a later creation as a seperate people.So I ask you Piperkata which one of the 3 are you?A Greek,a Slav or a Turk Macedonian?

[slavicwolf]

Originally Posted by slavicwolf

jordanco, again you confuse the name macedonian, but arent we all macedonian who are from macedonia? including the albanians turks vlahs serbs ect? i have posted many article and you ignore them. especialy the one where it gives an explanation of the meaning of macedonians by a foreign author.
ok let me ask you a formal question. if you say we are not bulgarians and have nothing to do with them then why are there so many newspapers,letters,photos
that tell us the opposite? why did all of our revolutionaries declare themselves as bulgarians? why does the foreign press speak about bulgarians from macedonia and not of a separete macedonian nation?

jordan i see you are avoiding these questions, tell me why others concidered us bulgarian,why our people concidered themselves as bulgarian? why did we create our alphabet in 1945, please i expect answer and not the type of macedonia for the macedonians because i have posted articles that shoot that theory down ok.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Jordan Piperkata

You may consider me a Slav if that helps you get thru the day Truth Bearer, but now lets examine what kind of Macedonian you yourself are, shall we start with the easy question and ask from what part of Macedonia you yourself hail from Truth Bearer?


You can use this map of Macedonia as a reference.
The map was published in "Makedonski Glas"(The Macedonian Voice), 9 June 1913, S:t Petersburg by Dimitria Chupovski.

Did you notice his name Truth Bearer, Chupovski, it ends in the dreaded -ovski, how is that possible, did Tito do this to him?

Its possible because back then a very small portion(5%?) of MAcedonian Slavs had names ending in -ski.In todays fyrom,its more like 80%.

I wonder how many of that ST Petersberg colony(funded of course by Belgrade to produce anti-BUlgarian propaganda) were from KAstoria and Florina?Wait,let me restate that since none of you at that time actually were from Kastoria itself and very few from Florina itself.Now many were from the Kastoria and Florina areas?
I predict zero.

[Victor]

DOnt forget Jordo

in the nineteenth century the term Macedonian was used almost exclusively to refer to the geographic region;the Macedonians were usually not considered a nationality seperate from the Bulgarians,Greeks,SErbs,or ALbanians.THe diplomatic records of the period make no clear mention of a seperate Macedonian nation.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that "Macedonian" meant ethnicity instead of one,some,or all the races of Macedonia(Greek,Bulgarian,Serb,Vlach,Turk,ALbanian ,Jew,Armenian,GYpsy),which is what any rational person who is historically honest belieeves.

[slavicwolf]

the "ski" at the end of the surnames was a prefix that meant from where the person was from or from what family. ex is if someone was from malesevo like dedo ilo he was named Malesevski i.e coming from malesevo. or the traitor Jovan Stojkovic-Babunski because he was a serbian cetnik in the babuna region. other examples are from which family the person was from. ex. if some was from Markov family then he is a Markovski. so even back in the days there are "ski" endings on some of our surnames which is a normal slavic practice as in a lot of russian surnames and majority of polish ones too.

[slavicwolf]

there are many pieces of evidence supporting the ethnic character of the slavic population in macedonia, another being the bitola inscription, its a tomb of the Samoil days and was found in 1956 in a mosque in bitola and now is in the bitola museum. it reads :
In the year 6523 (1015) since the creation of the world, this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme Apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the [...] This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil II at Stipone where gold was taken [...] and in [...] this Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch and died at the end of the summer.

[slavicwolf]

this is very interesting which i just found i will give you the link to the page but i just copied this now.

From the report of S. Novakovic to the Minister of Education in Belgrade about 'Macedonism'
as a transitional stage in Serbianizing the Macedonian Bulgarians



1887


Since the Bulgarian idea, as it is well-known, is deeply rooted in Macedonia, I think it is almost impossible to shake it completely by opposing it merely with the Serbian idea. This idea, we fear, would be incapable, as opposi*tion pure and simple, of suppressing the Bulgarian idea. That is why the Serbian idea will need an ally that could stand in direct opposition to Bulgarianism and would contain in itself the elements which could attract the people and their feelings and thus sever them from Bulgarianism. This ally I see in Macedonism ...


Цамбазовски, Ст. Новакович и македонизам, Историjски часопис, кнь. XIV, 1964, стр. 141; вж. същия, Културно-општествените врски на македонците со Cpбиjа во текот на XIX в., Скопje, 1960, (Cl. Djambazovski, St. Novakovic and Macedonism. Historical magazine vol. XIV, 1964, p. 141, see idem. Cultural and Public Relations of the Macedonians with Serbia in the XIXth c.), Skopje, 1960, p. 178.

[slavicwolf]

something from Gjorce Petrov too being a Sandanist and left wing "macedonia for the macedonians"

Information from a book by Gyorche Petrov1 on the ethnic composition of the population in Macedonia



1896



The Macedonian population consists of Bulgarians, Turks, Albanians, Wallachians, Jews and Gypsies. The total number of the population and that of each nationality cannot be defined exactly as there are no statistics. Recently the Turkish government has paid attention to statistics as regards the subjects of the Sultan in all respects. It was stipulated that each vilayet should publish a big calendar or 'salname,' which, along with other articles, should carry statistics. These calendars are almost the only official sources in this respect. There is a salname for Skopje vilayet, but it is so short that it is almost useless. Besides, one should use the salname somewhat cautiously because there are many incorrect and inaccurate facts.

The statistics show that the Mohammedan population is increasing at the expense of the Christian nationalities, while the minority groups among the latter are growing in number at the expense of the majority ones. In the region of Skopje the number of the Bulgarians and Albanians will naturally be decreasing.

The statistics of the population are not full because many conceal the nufizi (inhabitants) and do not get registered in order to avoid taxes and obligations.

That is what the Albanians and the Turks do. In view of this, I am not citing any figures, but I shall confine myself to making some remarks on the various nationalities that live in the Skopje vilayet.

5. Bulgarians. They constitute the bulk of the population in the vilayet I am describing. In spite of all distortions in the official statistics, they again figure as more than half of the population. I could not personally collect any data about the number of the population, that is why I am not quoting figures. I made a description of the Bulgarian population in the section on Topography, that is why it is not necessary to repeat the same again or go into detail.


/Г. Петров/, Материали по изучаването на Македония, София, 1896 г.; (G. Petrov, Materials on the Study of Macedonia), Sofia, 1896, pp. 724-725, 731; the original is in Bulgarian


1Gyorche Petrov (1864-1921), one of the founders and leaders of the IMARO, born in the village of Varosh, district of Prilep, for many years representative of the Organization in Sofia together with Gotse Delchev. He collected these materials about Macedonia while he was teaching in Skopje and Bitolya-They were intended for the use of the Ministry of War in Sofia

here is the link to the page
http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/en/ban/ls1.html#13

[Petros Houhoulis]

Originally Posted by slavicwolf

there are many pieces of evidence supporting the ethnic character of the slavic population in macedonia, another being the bitola inscription, its a tomb of the Samoil days and was found in 1956 in a mosque in bitola and now is in the bitola museum. it reads :
In the year 6523 (1015) since the creation of the world, this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme Apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the [...] This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil II at Stipone where gold was taken [...] and in [...] this Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch and died at the end of the summer.

Slavicwolf, what you state was true at 1014 A.D., one thousand years before. Some one millenium before that, the most inscriptions were in Latin, but the people were not Latin. Some 2,700 years before today, all the inscriptions (without exception for the area of Macedonia) were Greek.

Times change Slavicwolf. What was true at 700 B.C. was not true at 1 A.D. What was true at 1 A.D. was not true at 1014 A.D. What makes you believe that what was true at 1014 A.D. was true at the turn of the 19th century?

Well, it wasn't so Slavicwolf...