What decides ethnicity and nationality?

[akritas]

Lets see first what are the several meaning of these common words

Nationality mean....

1. The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.
2. A people having common origins or traditions and often constituting a nation.
3. Existence as a politically autonomous entity; national independence.
4. National character.
5. Nationalism.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nationality

Ethnicity mean.....
1. Ethnic character, background, or affiliation.
2. An ethnic group.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ethnicity

What is my opinion?

Ethnicity has nothing to do with blood and DNA.
Now according to the current international thinking there are two main models of nation:

(a) the territorial and civic model and
(b) the ethnic-genealogical model.

The theory of Renan belongs to the western civic model, as per which a historic territory, legal-political community, legal-political equality, and common civic culture and ideology are required for the formation of a nation. According to the alternative ethnic model, which is supported by one of the most prominent modern theorists of nationalism, Anthony Smith, nation as a community is based on the common predecessors, the common descent of the different ethnic groups and their native culture.

The nations with an ethnic or genealogical basis seek to expand so as to include the ethnically kin populations that are beyond the current borders of the ethnic nation, along with the territories where they live, or aim for the creation of a much larger ethic-national state, merging into other culturally and ethnically kin states. This is the case of the pan-nationalism of the unredeemed and all other kinds of pan-nationalisms.

more in Macedonia Articles and to Greeks or Hellenes ?

So

DNA and blood play a factor?
Race?
History?
Religion?
What can you exclude?
What would you idealize?

[Komitadji]

Originally Posted by akritas

Now according to the current international thinking there are two main models of nation:

(a) the territorial and civic model and
(b) the ethnic-genealogical model.

Yes ofcourse...

But gor the modern Greek, we can apply only the FIRST MODEL...
Because modern greeks are composed besides of ethnic greeks, also
from VLACHS, ALBVANIANS, and SLAVIC GREEKS (Grkomani)...

The three natinalities I mentioned are one of the main attributes of\the greek nation, but they are not greek by blood, they are not thnic greeks...

[akritas]

Originally Posted by Komitadji

Yes ofcourse...

But gor the modern Greek, we can apply only the FIRST MODEL...
Because modern greeks are composed besides of ethnic greeks, also
from VLACHS, ALBVANIANS, and SLAVIC GREEKS (Grkomani)...

The three natinalities I mentioned are one of the main attributes of\the greek nation, but they are not greek by blood, they are not thnic greeks...

Modern Greeks never deny that theirs nation is not belong in this that called the ethnic-genealogical model.
They belong to the first one. As Anthony Smith, nation as a community is based on the common predecessors, the common descent of the different ethnic groups and their native culture.
And this model apply in the Hellenism term.
We have Vlachs that declared Hellenes.
We have Arvanites(not albanians, is like to call you Bulgarian) that declared Hellenes.
We have Makedonci that declared Hellenes.
All these have a common native culture.The Greek one.


but what about your Slavic nation ?
Are they Makedontsis?
why your modern heroes (Delcev,Misirikov e.t.c.), former presidents(Gligorov,Georgievski) declared that were and are Bulgarians and you denied ?
why your ancient heroes(Samuil) declared that were Bulgarians and you denied?
Why are you insult as Grekomans, Serbomans,Bulgaromans people that they declared diffrent ethincity from yours?

[Flipper]

Originally Posted by Komitadji

Yes ofcourse...

But gor the modern Greek, we can apply only the FIRST MODEL...
Because modern greeks are composed besides of ethnic greeks, also
from VLACHS, ALBVANIANS, and SLAVIC GREEKS (Grkomani)...

The three natinalities I mentioned are one of the main attributes of\the greek nation, but they are not greek by blood, they are not thnic greeks...

Then you should specify that "some" of them can apply to the first model. In any case if vlachs, arvanites or slavic speakers want to identify themselves as Greeks that doesn't mean we do not accept them as greeks.

[Istor]

Gligorof, (as an answer to Pavlos Melas' 'Macedonian' words)
'we are just SlavoSkopians' !!!!

Was Solun amongst those words ??

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Originally Posted by Komitadji

Yes ofcourse...

But gor the modern Greek, we can apply only the FIRST MODEL...
Because modern greeks are composed besides of ethnic greeks, also
from VLACHS, ALBVANIANS, and SLAVIC GREEKS (Grkomani)...

The three natinalities I mentioned are one of the main attributes of\the greek nation, but they are not greek by blood, they are not thnic greeks...

I will question your intent here Komi. Careful what you advocate, it may come back to slap you harder than you ever intended. As for the intent of others who answered here, I do not question it at this point. You see, with your response, I do question what motivated you in being so eager to answer this question. I do not believe you are debating history for the love of truth. And while we are at it, I will honestly say you seem like a good person on the most part, but why do you still have that baby killer name for? Let me make it clear, don't ask us to change it, change it yourself!!!

Now back to history, I am still confused as to why it is so important to you to discredit our lineage? Please tell me who the Arvanites are, the Skops (is that what you meant by Slav Greeks?), the Vlachs? Just tell me who the hell you want us to be? Personally, I know who I am, but why is it so important to you to distance us from the ancients?

I am not so concerened about this nonsense. I know my lineage goes back longer than most can see, from any culture. Certainly long before your relos came to Macedonia (1000 years after ALexander). I know that even if I did have the blackest African, the nastiest Norwegian, or whatever, I would still be Greek. Komi, stop fishing for the shit your buddies have told you to fish for. Stay here with us and talk history and culture for one important reason, because we love wisdom. Please stay, but for the right reasons mate.

[edessa]

haha the balls on these ppl, saying that we the greeks have nothing to do with ancient greece!
its funny that they talk about our macedonia more than their own country

[Christov]

Originally Posted by Komitadji

Yes ofcourse...

But gor the modern Greek, we can apply only the FIRST MODEL...
Because modern greeks are composed besides of ethnic greeks, also
from VLACHS, ALBVANIANS, and SLAVIC GREEKS (Grkomani)...

The three natinalities I mentioned are one of the main attributes of\the greek nation, but they are not greek by blood, they are not thnic greeks...

Komitadji,

I’ve being reading your comments already several months in silence and believe me, it takes great patience! Unfortunately you didn’t show any improvement and I think it’s time to help you. My first step is to ask you to 2 basic things:
1. Try to express yourself with simple and complete sentences. All those “point point point” looks like “toilet poetry” in a moment of mental constipation.
2. Write all those ideas of yours with MS Word and check your spelling by pressing F7. I am tired of reading 3 incomplete sentences with 10 mistakes, as your last posting shows. It is embarrassing even for the readers!

I think it is fair the way you treat someone is the way he will treat you.

[preston]

Originally Posted by christov

1. Try to express yourself with simple and complete sentences. All those “point point point” looks like “toilet poetry” in a moment of mental constipation.

This is award wining writing..I have not laughed so much for months...ty Christov!!

[pankration]

I have such a hard time understanding what Komi says that I often just give up and look for the response.

Komi needs to heed Philip's words: are you here to whine and take potshots or are you here to offer intelligent, researched discourse. I don't mind if you disagree with me or anyone else but support your arguments with legitimate sources INTERPRETED CORRECTLY. A couple of other posts you made used information taken out of context. Don't ever try that on this site. The moderators here are sharks smelling blood when they suspect a liar or propagandist.
I too couldn't give a shit if my ancient ancestors were "ethnic" Greeks, blacks, Celts, Aryans or even Chinese. I like most Greeks can trace my "lineage" back to the ancients; that's what makes me Greek. Some Slavic interloper who can trace his history only to the 6th century and to then claim Macedonia as his own is and always will be an affront to my intelligence and an insult to my ancestors.