Pope ,Greece and Macedonia

[akritas]

Flip because I will be out of here (until the end of this month) just make a searching in the historical event that is as known when Paul found in Greece temples with dedication in the unkonwn God(the 13 God as you said)

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Flipper

If that's the case maybe someone should let them know that.

By the way, is it true that before the christianization of the Greeks they had added a 13th god in their list? The god was "the pure, good but unknown god". I've heard that because of him the christianization was easy cause christians used to say "We came to talk to you about your unknown god".

These are the accounts I know of..

Pausanias "Description of Hellas" Attiki 1.4

The Athenians have also another harbor, at Munychia, with a temple of Artemis of Munychia, and yet another at Phalerum, as I have already stated, and near it is a sanctuary of Demeter. Here there is also a temple of Athena Sciras, and one of Zeus some distance away, and altars of the gods named Unknown, and of heroes, and of the children of Theseus and Phalerus; for this Phalerus is said by the Athenians to have sailed with Jason to Colchis.

Bible Acts 17

22) Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious.
23) For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: "to an unknown God". Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.

Well I haven't heard this description, but it seems that such a temple (or more if we take Pausanias' account) did exist in Athens.. While this approach is used by Paul in Athens, he doesn't use this neither in Korinthos nor in Thessaloniki which could indicate that this was a local God..
Then again, Athenians being known for searching into all issues may have came up with this to explain foreign Gods.. something like the 'Αγνωστος Στρατιωτης", that represents all the 'unknown' heroes that have fallen and all those that will fall in the future.

But Christenization, wasn't an easy task. Even though Paul does use the 'Unknown God" argument to approach the Atheneans and some do follow him. Its written that he was mocked and from the texts (Acts 17) we see that the event ends suddenly without him finishing his speech as he does in Korinthos and Thessaloniki, which could indicate the extent of mocking.

Originally Posted by Flipper

However, I located a greek fanatic site somewhere where they wrote some really bad things about our ancient culture.

Fanatics true, but lets also note who fanatized these people.. While many priests today, do acknowledge that Christianity is strongly influenced by the 'pagan' Hellinic religion, they have still to stop reading the damnations every Orthodox Sunday (Feb. 29).. I'd think that over 1200 ( Ecumenic Council of Nikea in 787) years are more than enough to finally see a change in mentality.

[pankration]

Here's another theory of the "unknown God". During the times of Ancient Greece, a monotheistic faith known as Zoroastriasm was practiced in Persia, with Persepolis its center. As we know, Alexander destroyed that city as well as most artifacts of that faith (probably his worst act and one he always regretted). It's possible that Athenians who had travelled to Persia brought back this belief in one God and merely added him to the pantheon of twelve they already had. Just my theory...if I have time I'll research it a little further.

New issue of www.fightingbest.com
Big news at www.pankration-novel-patrida.com

[Flipper]

Originally Posted by akritas

Flip because I will be out of here (until the end of this month) just make a searching in the historical event that is as known when Paul found in Greece temples with dedication in the unkonwn God(the 13 God as you said)

No problem

[Flipper]

@ Orphic_Hymn >> Great! This is what I've been talking about.

[Istor]

Macedonians themselves, aknowledging the big problem they had to \govern all those different peoples they conquered, they "discovered" a new god, a god over all other gods and called him "Dias Ypsistos" !! You know, Macedonians had a vice: to name everything after Greek names. A statue of that Ypsistos is found recently by Prof Pantermalis in Dion, the satatue is in Dion's museum.
Thoughts about ONE god had expressed in Greece since 6c. Socrates was more clear about this.

And finaly, the idea to build society over LOVE is Greek namelly Epikourean. Christianity is so different from Judaism, that Jews are not Christian.

Yes, Christianiy does have some "Jewish" elements (virginity) but all main things of the religion are Greek ideas.

[olvios]

great speech by the pope if any priest said those things in greece they would have him destroyed by calling him a fascist for promoting greek ideas and pride.

[Istor]

Only illiterate people like Nikos, dear olvios, that is about 5% of Greece's population.

We all other Greeks do know the importance of Greekness !! And we are proud of it. Very proud !

[Euklid]

Hello guys, posting from Cambridge UK at the moment.

I sat and read his speech as well, and that was my arguments against my half- Greek half-Persian girlfriend.


Many people in England, incl. her believe what the Pope said was politically incorrect and that he should say sorry.


My opinion is that the Greeks, Italians, Germans, French and all the Christian world lacks the past 20 years of politicians. We lack vision and power in our speech and the pope by quoting an emperor i believe tried to show them the way in Politics, Bushes way, the way that we have long forgot due to these pussies that rule us, but also due to these pussies that want to hear them(see Nikos).

So, in m opinion the Popes speech took place in a time when all the Christians in the world(at least the majority) need a voice, a loud voice, a voice that reaffrims them in the political battleground, an internal European one, not just Bushes bst.



Also, what he said that Islam is a religion of the sword became reaffirmed when all the Mullahs of the world, sent death threats to him and to our orthodox brethren in Jerusalem.


In my opinion he shouldnt have said Sorry, but should have more elaborated on the purpose of his speech.


Anyway, feels good to be back.