Preston , info required

[preston]

Hello to all…!
I’m starting this topic because I need some info.
I KNOW THIS CAN BE JEOPARDIZING OUR COUNTRY’S EFFORTS. BUT IM LOOKING FORWARD IN THE POSITIVE RESPONSE IT MIGHT HAVE AMONG MEMBERS OF THE SLAVOMACEDONIAN SIDE!

Can anyone verify and contribute to the following?

I have heard through the “grape vine” that an abnormal expression of pro-Hellenism is currently appearing in the areas traditionally known as “Hellenic” within FYROM. (Meaning all the way from our country’s Northern borders right up to Ohrida.) The rumor (yet to BE VERIFIED) has it that there are large displays of the Greek flag in houses and businesses and that at the same time (non-fanatical) members of our Hellenic brethren (resigning in FYROM) are granted “silent” non-visa requirement entries to Greece, with encouragement to visit and negotiate the purchase of land as far south as Amindeo. At the same time citizens of Greece are in a “shopping” spree buying land in all areas as far North as Ohrida. Is there something going on?
Please share your knowledge on the subject and lets talk sence to our lost but not forgotten brothers and sisters!

[Tsontos]

cant say a word sorry re.

PE-LA-GONI-AAAAA!!!!!

[Vasiliye]

I have not observed any kind of massive pro-Greek attachment, be it hidden or public, among the general population of sothern FYROM (Ohrid, Bitolj/Monastiri, Prilep, Gevgelija), although I do not exclude a possibility that individuals, families, formal or informal groups and organizations have pledged their allegiance to Hellenism.

In my opinion, there is a sound bases that a part of the populations in this areas, should consider themselves Greek.It has to be taken in mind that:

-There wasn't sharp religious or other form of contrast preventing intermariagge after 1913.
-The people (with the possible exception of some, presumambly more intellectual and hardline "cryptogreeks") lost contact with the pre 1913 generation of their forefathers
-It will be a difficult task to rehellenise them and introduce them into the mainstreem of Greek society, due to linguistic reasons.While bussiness establishment of Greek capital in these areas is strong, the cultural initiatives of official Greece towards these forggoten compatriots were feeble, at least.

Much more an relatively affluent society like Greece could do for them: open schools, libraries, cultural centers, sponsoring teaching of Greek, excursions for young people, giving stipendies for study in Greek Universities, on its own initiative and with possible cooperation of Greek NGO.

[Nikos]

Hallo Preston, nice to read from you again.

There is pro-Greek element there. But everyone have a complaint about Greece.

First off there are a few "crypto-Greeks". I have spoken to them, they are very fluent in Greek. Some of them belong to the Grecophone nomadic tribe of Sarakatsani, but the assimilation tactic counts them for Vlachs.
Some Vlachs also will tell you that are Greeks. In the kafene of a village a guy was singing to me the "Saranta Palikaria".
But they do not consist a minority; they are merely individuals left overs of minority.

The main complaint they have from Greece is the difficulty in obtaining Visas for Greece. They cannot understand Greece being overwhelmed by Bulgarians and Albanians even Pakistanis and Bangladeshians and they have difficulties in obtaining visas.

Among many of the Vlachs of RoM there are strong Pro-Greek feelings. But again the main complaint is the visas. Also Greece has never approached them. They are considered "skopiani". Also after so many generations living there they consider themselves Macedonians.

Among the Macedonians there could be some pro-Greek feelings, but the name dispute ruins everything. Many youngsters (15-20 years old) had the nasty experience of travelling to Greece and introducing themselves and receiving the answer "NOOOO you are not Macedonian, you are Skopianos".
Young people don't care about Aristotelis and etc... and are unable to understand the anyway illogical Greek claims.

Some of the Macedonians have acquired some relation with Greece through colaborating with Greeks or working in Greek companies and have learned some Greek, but no more than this.
In general the Greek language is not spoken as a foreign language.

You see boys wearing T-shirts of English and Italian football teams, but never of Greek ones.

Anyway there is substatum for Greece but the name dispute prevents any pro-Greek feelings even among the non-Macedonians.

[Leonatos]

Nikos wrote:
Among the Macedonians there could be some pro-Greek feelings, but the name dispute ruins everything. Many youngsters (15-20 years old) had the nasty experience of travelling to Greece and introducing themselves and receiving the answer "NOOOO you are not Macedonian, you are Skopianos".

So it is now our fault that they don't like us.
If we accepted their nationalism and irredentism then we would be good Greek.What nonsense is this?This is a ridiculous statement.In fact these people should be grateful that Greece invests in their country.If it hadn't been for the Greek investment this country would have been ruins by now.This reason alone should have ensured their friendship toward us,and as a token of this gratitude and friendship they should have got to terms with us over the name dispute.However,instead of showing good will they keep saying that they will never agree on anything else that Macedonia as their state's name.

[HellenicPride]

Originally Posted by Leonatos

Nikos wrote:
Among the Macedonians there could be some pro-Greek feelings, but the name dispute ruins everything. Many youngsters (15-20 years old) had the nasty experience of travelling to Greece and introducing themselves and receiving the answer "NOOOO you are not Macedonian, you are Skopianos".

So it is now our fault that they don't like us.
If we accepted their nationalism and irredentism then we would be good Greek.What nonsense is this?This is a ridiculous statement.In fact these people should be grateful that Greece invests in their country.If it hadn't been for the Greek investment this country would have been ruins by now.This reason alone should have ensured their friendship toward us,and as a token of this gratitude and friendship they should have got to terms with us over the name dispute.However,instead of showing good will they keep saying that they will never agree on anything else that Macedonia as their state's name.

Good post I agree.

[Leonatos]

I really cannot understand sometimes some of our fellow citizens and compatriots,like Nikos who think that always the Greeks are the bad guys and all the other people of the Balkans had been throughout history our victims.Who really knows why some people think like that?

[Vasiliye]

Nikos has been called upon to explain what he thought by his statement, but I thing that he was reffering to the part of the population of FYROM which is pro-Greek or either fully Greek in concience (which they cannot proffess publicly in FYROM) and which are frowned upon by Greeks in the Hellenic Republic when these are approached by them.

Simmilar thing in my case.Although I have excellent knowledege of Serbian literature language, I'm a Serb by conviction and a Serb nationalist on top of all that,and I originate from a area (Skoplje) which was "substantially linked with Serbia" (at minimum) throughout the ages, in not a few situation I have been frowned upon like some pseudo-Serb, a non-Serb, bu gestures and speech, some of it vague, some of it being explicit.

I think that that is what Nikos was trying to tell.I'll let his eventual final clarification on him....

[Tsontos]

Originally Posted by Leonatos

I really cannot understand sometimes some of our fellow citizens and compatriots,like Nikos who think that always the Greeks are the bad guys and all the other people of the Balkans had been throughout history our victims.Is it the anti-nationalist brainwashing responsible?Leftist ideology?who really knows?

Hello my freind. Nikos has been around on this forum for some time now. His I.P adress and his fluent Greek tells us that he lives in Athens.

Is he Greek? well hes a communist, reading his posts for a while will feel like reading rizospastis. its up to you to make up your mind on whether or not hes Greek. basically his beleifs encapsulate everything that the communists did so terribly wrong in regards to Macedonia. The betrayal which continues today will be hard forgotten

Nikos has been called upon to explain what he thought by his statement, but I thing that he was reffering to the part of the population of FYROM which is pro-Greek or either fully Greek in concience (which they cannot proffess publicly in FYROM) and which are frowned upon by Greeks in the Hellenic Republic when these are approached by them.

Simmilar thing in my case.Although I have excellent knowledege of Serbian literature language, I'm a Serb by conviction and a Serb nationalist on top of all that,and I originate from a area (Skoplje) which was "substantially linked with Serbia" (at minimum) throughout the ages, in not a few situation I have been frowned upon like some pseudo-Serb, a non-Serb, bu gestures and speech, some of it vague, some of it being explicit.

I think that that is what Nikos was trying to tell.I'll let his eventual final clarification on him....

nice post, fully understand. But Im afraid nikovski meant something different. He and his commitern buddies beleive that Greece are in the wrong in demanding a FYROM name change. among other things, thats what he beleives

[Istor]

"Young people don't care about Aristotelis and etc... and are unable to understand the anyway illogical Greek claims."

hahahahahahahahahahaha !!

While they do understand SlavoSkopian c laims logic, right ?? hahahahahahahahaha !!

Leonatos dear, Nikos is not Greek. This is obvious.