A diffrent Risto Stefov(aka Stefou)

[Hellas7]

Great, since he reads this all we have to do is bring a collection of his quotes which contradict and are untruthful!

I on the other hand, can site not only western sources but Greek sources as well where ethnic Macedonians affiliated with the Greek Church are called “Greeks” and ethnic Macedonians affiliated with the Bulgarian Church are called Bulgarians.

I'm sure he can, because there are definately people like this, however the only problem is that he can't find any sources to show that they actually identified as Ethnic Macedonians while they were counted as Greeks and Bulgarians.

And what about the so many sources to which they themselves identified as Bulgarians? Does he just want to ignore those?

[HellenicPride]

They are all clowns. They dont like the fact that the truth is being revealed and its killing them. I wonder what they are working on next. Regardless we must hit hard and show all those who fall for that nonsense, show them the truth that only Greeks are Macedonian.

[Amyntas]

Originally Posted by admin

I dont think he deserves even the attention we have allowed him. If he was educated and posted referenced material yes. He obviously is not educated nor does he have any idea of reading history besides making up stories, so I really dont see why we need to do this further.

Akritas and Ptolemy have done a good job humiliating him enough.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

just leave him and his little fanclub alone, no one cares about them and we shouldnt care eighter

[Hellas7]

This is how we can diminish your rediculous claims mr. Stefou (err Stefov).

How Much Of A Minority Are The Ethnic Macedonians In Greece?

maknews.com/html/articles/stefov/digest_7.html[/url]


If you go back to the time before Macedonia was invaded, occupied and partitioned by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria and carefully examine Macedonia’s demographics based on ethnicity (derived from linguistics according to the 1911 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica) you will find 1.15 million Slav speakers, 500 thousand Turk speakers, 120 thousand Albanian speakers, 90 thousand Vlach speakers, 75 thousand Jews, 35 thousand Roma and 25 thousand Greek speakers; for a total of 2 million people living in Macedonia.

Stop.

1) The 1911 Encyclopedia specifically states 250,000 Greeks not 25,000.

See this scanned page HERE (I highlighted the important parts, don't want to make it to complicated for him):

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/7...a233222cm9.png


And also here, I scanned the continuation of this page specifically for Mr. Stefov (I thought he would enjoy this point):

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7...2343222lu4.png


Already we have established fallacy #1 haven't we? And we are only in the first paragraph!

Assuming the various ethnicities were evenly distributed, when Greece received 51% of Macedonian’s territory it also received 51% of the ethnicities living on its soil. So in 1913 the Greeks inherited approximately 587 thousand Slav speakers, 255 thousand Turk speakers, 61 thousand Albanian speakers, 46 thousand Vlach speakers, 38 thousand Jews, 18 thousand Roma and 13 thousand Greek speakers.

2) What kind of assenine logic is this? Does Mr. Stefov really have such a low ability to read the facts and then rationalize? Or does he enjoy simply fooling the ignorant (or is he just plain ignorant himself?)

As one can read from the 1911 Encyclopedia, the Greek populations of Macedonia are almost exclusively concentrated in the south of Macedonia. (Salonica, Serres, Kavala, Castoria and Veria were mentioned specifically I believe). The Bulgarian, or in Mr. Stefovs case, Slavic Macedonian populations were mostly concentrated in the north. One wonders how such glaring facts can escape him?

Now, with this very simple injection of facts, one wonders how Mr. Stefov can rationalize 51% of Macedonia equals 51% percent of equal ethnic distribution? Does Mr. Stefov use such a loose and perverted rational for most of his conclusions? (Actually, one would have to say so....) Anyway, I digress. So here we have already gone over the Greek (south) and Slavic (north) populations. We also have the Turkish populations, who in the 1911 Encyclopedia (and other various sources) explicitly state that the majority of Turks inhabited the central and southern regions of Macedonia (ie: mainly in Greek Macedonia). Add to this the 75,000 Jews, of which some 60,000 inhabited just the city of Thessaloniki alone, and one is even more puzzled by Mr. Stefovs logic.


Thus right from the start, in reality we have a much different ethnic make-up of Greek Macedonia than Mr. Stefov can so ignorantly put out.


Instead of 13,000 Greeks the number is closer to 250,000. Instead of 255,000 Turks the numbers are much closer to 400,000 (which btw, a Muslim = a Turk then). Instead of 38,000 Jews the number is much closer to 60,000. For the Vlachs lets give the figure like he does (about half), the reasons for this is they were pretty evenly disributed between Greek Macedonia and Serbian/Vardar, so we have about 46,000. The Albanians were almost nonexistint in Southern Macedonia. (they inhabited western and northern Macedonia, the Slavic Macedonians should know this well shouldn't they ) And also add the Roma populations, which we can go ahead and also use half figure also as little information is provided on them, so 18,000.

When one counts all of this together, he reaches a population of around 775,000. This doesn't even include miscellenious peoples such as Armenians and some western Europeans (who inhabited Thessaloniki) etc... The total population of Greek Macedonia was around a little over 1 million at the time.

This would leave only some 225,000 Slavs in Greek Macedonia. Which ironically the majority identified as Greeks or the so called "Grkomani" (Grecomans). But thats another subject.

Assuming the 1.15 million Slav speakers were ethnic Macedonians (there is no credible evidence that disproves that) then 1.15 out of 2 million is 57.5%. Considering that there were no ethnic Greeks living in Bulgaria before 1912 and that the population exchanges between Greece and Bulgaria were simply ethnic Macedonians affiliated with the Greek Church exchanged for ethnic Macedonians affiliated with the Bulgarian Church.

3) I partically liked "Assuming the 1.15 million Slav speakers were ethnic Macedonians (there is no credible evidence that disproves that)" because Mr. Stefovs own source quoted in the beginning, the 1911 Encyclopedia, identified the overwhleming whole of the Slavonic population as Bulgarian.

The next point is, where does he get his history from? I won't bother with the Bulgarians who left Greece, because he will always called them "ethnic Macedonians" (even if sources like the 1911 Encyclopedia disagree) but where I take note is the so called "Bulgarian Macedonian" population of Bulgaria which came to Greece. Doesn't Mr. Stefov know that the MAJORITY of Greeks who came from Bulgaria inhabited the black sea coast? Which last time I checked, had nothing to do with Macedonia?

And one would wonder, or ask the question, if the Bulgarians of Greece were simply "ethnic Macedonians", and the Greeks of Bulgaria were simply "ethnic Macedonians" what would the swapping of "ethnic Macedonians" actually accomplish?

In the 1920’s approximately 520 thousand Christian Turks were deposited in Macedonia and approximately 320 thousand Muslim Turks were evicted from Macedonia for a net increase of 200 thousand Turks. Assuming the number of people living in Greek occupied Macedonia in 1913 was 1.02 million or 51% of 2 million. Thus adding 200 thousand to the 1.02 million would have increased the population to 1.22 million.

Isn't it funny how Mr. Stefov can so easily find "Ethnic Macedonians" (especially when no such thing actually existed) anywhere and everywhere, no matter how they identified or their nationality or religion, yet for the Greeks of Asia Minor label them as "Christian Turks"?


The double standards are quite evident. Maybe he is not looking for a realistic evaluation of his subject?


Doesn't Mr. Stefov know that the Christian and Muslim populations of the Ottoman Empire were segregated? Doesn't he know that under the law of Islam, any Muslims who coverted to another religion (like Christianity) the penalty was death? Doesn't he know that the Christians of Asia Minor retained their language, religion and custums which all differ completely to that of the Muslim Turk populations? Doesn't Mr. Stefov know that the population exchanges between Turkey and Greece were for Muslims of Greece and Greek Orthodox Christians of Turkey? Doesn't he know that Armenian, Bulgarian so on Christian populations were excluded? Doesn't he know that these so called "Turkish Christians" spoke the Greek langauge?


So again, one wonders how he labels them as "Turkish Christians" and not give them their proper name as "Greek Christians"? Do all the facts escape him yet again?


So a proper diagnosis of these events would again contradict his. Even going by his figures (which are not accurate) we add 520,000 Christian Greeks to the already 250,000 (+ Greeks from Bulgaria in 1919) population of Greek Macedonia, and we have around (conservative estimate) of 800,000 Greeks. I guess Mr. Stefov doesn't like to realize this fact. Also, eliminate the Turkish population of Greek Macedonia now (320,000 as he states).

Therefore, the total population would be 1.2 million with 800,000 of these being Greek. I guess we can see why Mr. Stefov doesn't like the figures.

So, by 1938 when all the population exchanges were finalized there were 580 thousand Slav speakers (there was some reduction due to the greater number of Slav speakers evicted to Bulgaria than Slav speakers accepted from Bulgaria), there was proportionally the same number of Albanians, Vlachs, Jews, Roma and Greek speakers and about 20 thousand more Greek speakers were brought in from Greece proper to administer the “New Territories”.

We have already established these numbers as false and quite simply very illogically put together. But, I guess we can add 20,000 to the Greek total (of the real population breakdown) as Mr. Stefov does. My guess is this would be Greek Macedonians who are returning to the area who left for the idependent Greece from Ottoman Macedonia once it was liberated and became a part of Greece.

So in 1938 the population of Greek occupied Macedonia would have looked like this:

580 thousand Slav speakers, 521 thousand (90 percent of the 578,844) Turkish speakers from Asia Minor, etc., 61 thousand Albanian speakers, 46 thousand Vlach speakers, 38 thousand Jews, 18 thousand Roma and 33 thousand Greek speakers (13 from before 1912 and 20 from after) for a total of 1.3 million. Thus in 1938 the Macedonians (Slav speakers) made up 45% of the total population. The next minority being the Turkish speaking Asia Minor Refugee numbering 521 thousand or 40% of the total population.

It's almost laughable how Mr. Stefov rationalizes. But, once again, back to reality, a real breakdown would be:


46,000 Vlachs.

60,000 Jews.

18,000 Roma.

250,000 Greeks the original of Macedonia, 520,000 Greeks (in language and religion) from Asia Minor. Add to that the 20,000 from other areas of Greece, and we have 790,000. Add to this the 45,000 which came from Bulgaria in the exchange of 1919, we have 835,000.

135,000 Slavs. The original number of approximately 225,000 minus those exchanged to Bulgaria (90,000).

Assuming about 70 thousand Macedonians, including the refugee children, were evicted and another 30 thousand were killed during the Greek Civil War, then by late 1950 the number of Macedonians was reduced from 580 to 480 thousand. Assuming all other ethnicities combined lost an equal number of people, we then have a population reduction of 200 thousand or a total of 1.1 million people.

Given the high rate of immigration since the 1950’s, I would estimate a further reduction of 80 thousand Macedonians for a total of 400 thousand. Also given the low population growth increase I would estimate a 1% growth increase for every twenty years. Thus we have 400 thousand plus 2.5% of 400 thousand for a total of 410 thousand Macedonians living in Greek occupied Macedonia today.

Assuming the same proportions apply to all other ethnicities, I would estimate that of all individual minorities living in Greek occupied Macedonia today, the Macedonian minority ranks the highest at about 43% of the total population followed by the Asia Minor refugees at 42% (521,000-60,000 due to losses; Greek Civil War and immigration) of the total population.

So, the only way Greece can claim the Macedonians are a minority in Greek occupied Macedonia is if they combine all other ethnicities together and call them “ethnic Greeks”.

By Risto Stefov

Once again, how Mr. Stefov comes to any of these numbers is I guess only for him to know. But it is quite laughable, and with the above we can now see that the Slavic minority in Greece (after this latest reduction) is a very extreme minority.

And of this minority, if one takes into self identification, the only "Macedonian" minority is that of the members in the Rainbow Party. Hence: under 5,000.

[Tsontos]

you fat bastard stefou!

[Slayer]

I don't know if you guys have noticed yet but there is a new one up at the same address:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Risto_Stefov

I can't help but laugh

[HellenicPride]

Originally Posted by Slayer

I don't know if you guys have noticed yet but there is a new one up at the same address:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Risto_Stefov

I can't help but laugh

LOL laughing my a#$ off.

[Amyntas]

lol, is he really aromanian? :P

[akritas]

Chris Stefou(aka Risto Stefov)

PHP Code:

Dear Wikipedia, 

My name is Risto Stefov and I am writing to inform you that someone is 
impersonating me on your website. I am not a wikipedia user and I have never posted any material on your website. 

This morning I received an e-mail from a friend asking me to contact my 
lawyer regarding this matter but before I do, I would like to ask you to 
remove the offensive information located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Risto_Stefov 

Not only is this information in error but it is a defamation of my 
character. 

I would ask you to please remove it immediately and respond to me at 
rstefov@hotmail.com. 

Regards, Risto Stefov 


Some points in your e-mail
-Your real name is Chris Stefou(aka Risto Stefov)
-They informed you friends..who Lubi Uzinovski??
-Yes ,the article is not correct as about your character.You are more worst. You are coward and provocator.

[preston]

Legendary stuff...now someone should go to his village...Oschima or Akritas ...is it?...and erect a statue with him on a donkey, (make sure it is as cheap looking as the one they erected in Skopia of Alexandros, Slavs relate well to bad taste, like Arabs relate well to 3Khz Audio tapes when their leaders call them to Jihad)... with a bit of luck FYROMinans will turn him in to a religious figure and a Saint...Agios Stefov!