Provocation: Albanian new passport bridge of ARTA ???

[Grace]

No traitors to the country will be allowed back The Chams would still have been in Greece if they did not side with the Nazis in WWII

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Or else get ready for the Himariotes and the real Greeks who side with the 'enemy,' Greece Fair?
Funny how all your minorities sided with the Germans? If true, maybe they weren't treated that well?


Being saved by NATO:
No, I meant like Russia, England and France saved the Greeks from Ibrahim Pasha

If Greece decided to use all its arsenal to kill and expell the people from Crete, Thrace or Epirus there isn't much they can do. A state is a state.
Serbs did use tanks, planes and organized rape to drive people out: kudos to them, they are really brave. Do you really think that would have been the end of it?

Search and see how much artillery Albania has from USSR and China. See how well did the Serbs do with inflation exceding that of Zimbabwe.
One word: hundreds of thousands of Albanians armed with artillery woud have bankrupted Serbia in no time. Serbia, without others to leach
on (Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Kosova) is a nothing. They went from 20 million to less than 8 million and losing each day.
Wars are expensive, guerrilla wars by people with nothing else to lose are not. The next war Serbs start, we'll take back Nis, it was 100% Albanian
before the Russians gave it to them.


We know you copy Albanian songs: it's ok, they go well with the Fustanella and the 'Greek' heroes of independence and the 'Greek' athletes

FYI: Himariotes aren't Greek, they just want to keep all of the property for themselves so they are "minorities" hoping Greece helps them out. Twice they were saved by the police as Albanians from Saranda and Vlora wanted to go there and have a chat with them.

The real Greeks are in Dropull, and have full rights. The young ones are gone anyway, but the old ones. You will see how "Greek" others feel once money is not that much of an issue. They are as Greek as the Albanians who have to be baptized in your church and take a Greek name in order to survive in Greece. Forced assimilation works but over centuries.

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by Grace

I am not naive, but Romania, Bulgaria and most Eastern E had plenty of troubles. Let's be honest, before EU Greece was much poorer as well, thus the Greek immigrants all over the world.

Fyrom will enter to keep the country together. Albs were promised that, and that's they are not trying to secede. I think we can agree that EU /US want them to stay as one, Greek objections non-withstanding. A solution to the name will be found and even now FYROM is not doing thatbad, it still has a GDP of $7600 /pp and a very friendly business climate.

Kosova is poor but EU has them under their wing and is rebuilding their economy from scratch. If everyone else enters in its own merit, they will bend the rules and throw a few crumbs to the Kosovars, plus they have an amazingly young population ready to work for cheap in Kosova.

Albania will enter in its own merit by 2015. The economy has been growing by 5-6% for quite a few years, and the inflation is in check, despite having a horrible government. Power and infrastructure will add a point to the GDP and as the gray economy counts, Albania will have plenty more money for improvements. Albania will be the next new destination and most of the coast will be left sparsely developed to attract high rollers. Once beachfront Albanian homes and apartments start selling, Albania will be the next Croatia or Spain or Greece. A little EU money, and most importantly direction and we're rolling. You have to admit that Albania too has a beautiful coastline and place full tourist destinations (not as good as Greece, but pretty good compared to others)

All the Balkans countries left out, together equal one Romania. One more push and all are in.



About Turkey, I have to wonder too if they will ever let in, but then it is the link to Asia and they are already NATO members. They border all the troubled ME countries so EU wants them on their side. Officially, IIRC, Greece supports them too. Regarding unemployment rate: Italy, Greece, US, Germany etc needs poorer countries anyway. Who is taking care of old people in Italy? Who is picking your olives? Who built the stadiums for the Olympics? So if they watch the borders a bit more, the Balkans countries can replace the illegal ones, and EU gains stability and one more market.

Turkey is a monster population wise and that is the problem for EU. 5 Million Turks is nothing for Turkey, but can clog EU (especially Bulgaria and Greece) Economically they are more ready than most, but then there is the culture, religion and freedom aspect for EU. You got to share the "Western values," or else...

As for the other comments: No one is seeking destruction of anyone, frankly it is Greece that still a war law in force with Albania and that has invented the Vorio Epirus issue, and supports it officially (pensions, passports and via the Church.) The Chams issue is a no brainer: Albania has not thrown out Greeks and taken their land with no compensation. We know why you did it too, excuses aside. What's fair is fair: mistakes need to be rectified.

For the rest of the comments, I wish Greeks would treat Albanians better and as a partner. There is plenty of land in the Balkans and thank God Albanians do multiply so there is no need to panic. I just find some slurs, and condescending attitude (not much in this site here to be honest) towards Albanians funny, and I think many people will have to learn to accept that things are changing. Everyone has had a helping hand at some point, and Albanians are finally getting some help.

Can we agree that Italy had a horrible, horrible, horrible military in WWII? Plus, Turks if they come will not be coming with rifles, just wives

Listen,i didn't say that Albania will not enter EU,i just said i consider difficult to reach Greece's economical level in a few years.Greece was off course a poor country prior to the entrance in EU and that's why you can find Greek immigrants everywhere.My family were immigrants in Germany as many other people from our region.They had a very hard time in the 50s and 60s,they were tobacco farmers but usually the merchants were exploiting them,buying their crop literal for a fistfull of drachmas.The same goes for all the rural populations of Greece at that time,therefore all the villages had a big population decrease.Things began to go much better only from the late 70s and mainly in the 80s,but after 27 years beeing member of EU,we can no way claim that Greece reached the economical level of the more developed countries of western Europe.So i think it's difficult for Albania to reach the Greek economical rates in 15-20 years.However,i wish you to achieve this.Not only Albania but all the Balkan countries,it will be very good for the stability of the area and for Greece especially if she is surrounded by rich countries.Poverty always bears problems,chauvinism e.t.c,welfare is the best guarantee for peace and assurance.

Originally Posted by Grace

it is Greece that still a war law in force with Albania

You are wrong here,this has already been abolished,not many years ago thouhg.

Originally Posted by Grace

I wish Greeks would treat Albanians better and as a partner.

I don't think the Albanians in Greece confront serious problems of mistreating.Some individual cases of mistreating unfortunately always exist in every society but it's not fair to generalize them and make wrong conclusions.Speaking in generaly i believe the Albanians in Greece are treatened hospitably enough,otherwise they wouldn't be so many.

Originally Posted by Grace

Can we agree that Italy had a horrible, horrible, horrible military in WWII?

What about France?I don't think France had also a horrible army,but she couldn't hold the Germans more than 3-4 days,whereas Greece held them for 50 days.If the Greek army had the French equipment i don't think the Germans would be ever able to step foot in Greek soil.

Originally Posted by Grace

Plus, Turks if they come will not be coming with rifles, just wives

Even if Turkey would ever be allowed to enter EU,i don't think their citizens would ever get the permission to settle wherever they want.Only the females perhaps

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Grace

The Chams issue is a no brainer: Albania has not thrown out Greeks and taken their land with no compensation. We know why you did it too, excuses aside. What's fair is fair: mistakes need to be rectified.[/b]

All 20,000 Chams (a pretty close comparison to the 1.2-1.5 million Greeks who were expelled from Asia Minor and Pontus righ?) who were expelled from Greece 70 years ago should come back! Wait, 500,000 Albanians live in Greece right now! There must be some Chams descendants among them! Instead of cramming themselves into tiny apartments in Athens or Thessaloniki, why don't they go find their roots in Thesprotia?

I hope they are proud of their grandfathers siding with the Nazis

Originally Posted by Grace

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Or else get ready for the Himariotes and the real Greeks who side with the 'enemy,' Greece Fair?
Funny how all your minorities sided with the Germans? If true, maybe they weren't treated that well?

Funny how our minorities had mother countries that were part of the Axis Powers (Albania, Bulgaria...) .

Well the Turks in Thrace didn't

I wonder if Albanians suffered from WWII guilt being associated with the Nazis as did their German allies

Being saved by NATO:
No, I meant like Russia, England and France saved the Greeks from Ibrahim Pasha

Yeah something like that. Actually more like how Italy established an Albanian state in 1915.

If Greece decided to use all its arsenal to kill and expell the people from Crete, Thrace or Epirus there isn't much they can do. A state is a state.
Serbs did use tanks, planes and organized rape to drive people out: kudos to them, they are really brave. Do you really think that would have been the end of it?

If I recall correctly, they used there paramilitary forces to battle the KLA at first right? it wasn't until NATO began to bomb when the Serbs brought in heavy tanks right? Either way, if not for NATO and your new best friends America, Kosovo would have been lost.

Btw, don't get me wrong, imho, Kosovo is historically Albanian. The Albos were there first (me thinks) even though at one point in history, the province was predominantly Serb in population, but at least in modern times, the Albos do represent an overwhelming majority of that state, however, the in this day and age we can't carve out every ethnic enclave into it's own nation. Otherwise, Himarra and a few other parts of Southern Albania would be fair game

The next war Serbs start, we'll take back Nis, it was 100% Albanian
before the Russians gave it to them.

You mean that will be the next place America hands over to you

We know you copy Albanian songs: it's ok, they go well with the Fustanella and the 'Greek' heroes of independence and the 'Greek' athletes

But of course, the Albanians spread their culture and language, throughout the world unlike those Greeks

Btw, thanks for freeing Greece, and helping them attain some gold medals in recent Olympics. (I wonder how "Albanian" Pirros Dimas feels)

YouTube - PYRROS DIMAS A TRUE GREEK (ALBANIANS... " title="YouTube - PYRROS DIMAS A TRUE GREEK (ALBANIANS..." target="_blank">YouTube - PYRROS DIMAS A TRUE GREEK (ALBANIANS...

YouTube - PYRROS DIMAS A TRUE GREEK (ALBANIANS... " title="YouTube - PYRROS DIMAS A TRUE GREEK (ALBANIANS..." target="_blank">YouTube - PYRROS DIMAS A TRUE GREEK (ALBANIANS...

I wonder why those "Albanians" would not do the favor for their own country

as for the fustanella.....

This is an ancient Mycenaean fresco. Look at their dress in 1600 b.c Looks like pretty much like a fustanella to me

FYI: Himariotes aren't Greek, they just want to keep all of the property for themselves so they are "minorities" hoping Greece helps them out. Twice they were saved by the police as Albanians from Saranda and Vlora wanted to go there and have a chat with them.

Now look who's denying the ethnic identity of a people

The real Greeks are in Dropull, and have full rights. The young ones are gone anyway, but the old ones. You will see how "Greek" others feel once money is not that much of an issue. They are as Greek as the Albanians who have to be baptized in your church and take a Greek name in order to survive in Greece.

Why does it bother you that Greeks live in Southern Albania? It's not like they have ever took up arms or aided the enemy of you country right?

Forced assimilation works but over centuries.

Albania had a pretty good go at it for about 5 decades

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Grace

B]The Chams issue is a no brainer: Albania has not thrown out Greeks and taken their land with no compensation. We know why you did it too, excuses aside. What's fair is fair: mistakes need to be rectified.[/b]

YOure right,it is a 100% no brainer.ITs not an issue with GReece,no other country cares at all,and no ALbanian government has ever made a serious issue of this.

No compensation,no apologies,no nothing.Ever.CASE CLOSED!

[Kiril Evangelovski]

Originally Posted by Grace

The Chams issue is a no brainer: Albania has not thrown out Greeks and taken their land with no compensation. We know why you did it too, excuses aside. What's fair is fair: mistakes need to be rectified.

If you really believe this crap then I suggest you contact pretty much most of the Eastern European countries and let them know that they will be required to pay compensation (and restore property and citizenship) to the many many millions of their ethnic German citizens they kicked out (in a considerably more violent way) at the end of WWII. Because it is exactly the same situation and if someone is mad enough to reopen this issue in one case it becomes a precedent for all other cases. Unlike the Albanian government that would love to reestablish an actual minority (of citizens, not immigrants) in Greece to counterbalance the Greeks of Omonia, the German government has been responsible about this and resisted the similar efforts of the German equivalents of your Cham associations.

But hell, if you want to turn the clock back then, aside from the Cham properties there are 2109 death sentences handed in absentia for war crimes that were not exercised as the culprits had left for Albania. In all fairness (which you seek) justice needs to be served and in the case the culprits have already departed you can always offer yourself up as a replacement. Consider it a small sacrifice for the higher cause of the Albanian nation. Although we have officially done away with the death sentence a few years ago (and actually stopped executing anyone many decades ago), since we're going back to 1944 we can reinstate it to progress the greater cause of fairness; in your case it would also serve the also great cause of ridding the world of nationalist vermin.

Originally Posted by Grace

For the rest of the comments, I wish Greeks would treat Albanians better and as a partner.

Quite a few Albanians deserve respect for their hard work and accomplishments despite having being dealt a bad hand in life. On the other hand Albanians that immigrate illegaly (because of need) to another country only to start claiming they will soon be running the place or talking about how the country they live in is actually in occupation of Albanian lands (and my family has personal experience of both kinds) deserve no respect and in fact should simply get a nice deportation back home. As for Albanians like yourself that go the further step of claiming half of my family as their long lost brainwashed brothers and the most numerous oppressed minority in Greece all I can say is what my late grandfather would have said had he lived to see some of your kind on our island: Ai kihou. In fact it might help you with your wet dreams, you know reduce a bit of the pressure down there.