Mirande Vickers: The Cham Issue – Where to Now?

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by gmellos

AGAIN how does 1000 deaths EQUAL genocide!??????

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[1]


Defining genocide: the Nürnberg Charter and the genocide convention

criminal intent to destroy or to cripple permanently a human group. The acts are directed against groups as such, and individuals are selected for destruction only because they belong to these groups.

[Draco]

We can conclude therefore that there was no genocide.

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by Draco

We can conclude therefore that there was no genocide.

You mean,you can conclude that.

[chicagogeorge]

The Chams sided with the Nazis and Fascists. Everyone knows what their intentions were. To split up the Greek territory. 20,000 Chams were expelled from Epirus and 1-2,000 were killed. If this is a genocide, than what the Ottomans did to the Greeks and Armenians is what? A Super genocide?

[Draco]

I think more Germans were killed in Greece than Chams. Perhaps the Greek resistance committed genocide on the Germans too.

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by Draco

I think more Germans were killed in Greece than Chams. Perhaps the Greek resistance committed genocide on the Germans too.

Its not about numbers,and the Germans were an occupying military force,not autochthonous civilians.

[Draco]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Its not about numbers,and the Germans were an occupying military force,not autochthonous civilians.

The Chams in question were enlisted in the occupying force. The Greek resistance was fighting the occupying force, not some secret plan to erradicate Albanians. More Greeks were killed by the Greek resistance groups than Chamsm either for being too communist or too royalist etc. Perhaps this was a self-genocide.

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by Draco

The Chams in question were enlisted in the occupying force. The Greek resistance was fighting the occupying force, not some secret plan to erradicate Albanians. More Greeks were killed by the Greek resistance groups than Chamsm either for being too communist or too royalist etc. Perhaps this was a self-genocide.

Perhaps,since Chams were Greek citizens,but still a genocide.

[Draco]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Perhaps,since Chams were Greek citizens,but still a genocide.

How "still a genocide"? There is no evidence of genocide. It was a time when people were killing each other because of their political beliefs regardless of ethnicity.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Perhaps,since Chams were Greek citizens,but still a genocide.

So they should have sided with Greece and not the Nazis.