Documentary about Pyrros Dimas, childhood and origins

[Draco]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Well you forgot to mention Arvanites.Himariots are just albanians and they like all the other orthodox Albanians were a blackmailing instrument in the hands of greece.

If they never had an Albanian national identity, why do you claim them as Albanians? I admit, it would be dubious if they once identified themselves as Albanians and not Greeks since the rise of nationalism in Europe, but I'm not aware of that ever happening.

You should take a leaf out of the Greek book. We accept as Greeks those who identify as Greeks (regardless of language, such as Arvanites or Greek Americans) and reject those who don't identify as Greeks (even if they do speak Greek, such as the Greek Muslims).

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by Draco

If they never had an Albanian national identity, why do you claim them as Albanians? I admit, it would be dubious if they once identified themselves as Albanians and not Greeks since the rise of nationalism in Europe, but I'm not aware of that ever happening.

You should take a leaf out of the Greek book. We accept as Greeks those who identify as Greeks (regardless of language, such as Arvanites or Greek Americans) and reject those who don't identify as Greeks (even if they do speak Greek, such as the Greek Muslims).

So if sudenly decide to call my self Greek you will accept it?!
Well then we have two different conceptions of nation.To me the ones you brought are good to describe a confraternity but not a nation.

[Draco]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

So if sudenly decide to call my self Greek you will accept it?!
Well then we have two different conceptions of nation.To me the ones you brought are good to describe a confraternity but not a nation.

It works for the Swiss.

Regarding you deciding to be a Greek, no I wouldn't accept it. The reason for that is that you already belonged to a different nation and we don't accept switches. The Arvanites never identified themselves as part of an Albanian nation (presumably due to their isolation), however they did come to identify themselves as part of a Greek nation.

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Albanian catholics were isolated as well.They are a pocket in a muslim area thats their particularity,and as i said thanks to their isolation.And btw himara in medieval times was the name for all the region not only for the 9 villages like today.

You didn;t understand what i said.If the Greek speeking people of Himara weren't Greeks but Albanians,as you claim,they wouldn't be orthodox but catholics or muslims like the other Albanians of this region

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Sry man but its not a naive claim.Their history is well documented.As i said we have himariots in italy,Skanderbegs son tryed to organise an uprising exactly in Himara,napoleon formed the "Garde Albanaise",with recrutes from Himara,half of their surnames are simply catholic Albanian surname,probably because most of them are just north Albanians that moved there after the fall of Kruja.

I don't claim that in Himara are or were living only Greeks.

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Well you forgot to mention Arvanites.Himariots are just albanians and they like all the other orthodox Albanians were a blackmailing instrument in the hands of greece.

Arvanites are a very different case.They weren't a people who learnt his neighbourn's language and therefore he was assimilated.They were a minority surrounded by a majority and therefore they got hellenized.Their assimilation was inevitable under these circumstances,it's something that has happened in many other countries many times.Allthough they are now self-identifying as Greeks you consider them Albanians and that is something that i can understand.You say that all the orthodoxs in Albania aren't Greeks and i agree and accept it.But when someone is orthodox,speaks Greek and calls himself Greek,why can't you accept it?

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by Draco

It works for the Swiss.

Regarding you deciding to be a Greek, no I wouldn't accept it. The reason for that is that you already belonged to a different nation and we don't accept switches. The Arvanites never identified themselves as part of an Albanian nation (presumably due to their isolation), however they did come to identify themselves as part of a Greek nation.

Well Draco they live in Albania so i guess they will have to follow our rules!They identifyed themselfes as part of the Albanian nation during communism(i know what you are going to say),but i doubt Arvanites in Greece had more freedom of choice.

[Draco]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

They identifyed themselfes as part of the Albanian nation during communism(i know what you are going to say)

I won't say it if they also did not identify themselves as Greeks before communism.

Originally Posted by TirAlb

but i doubt Arvanites in Greece had more freedom of choice.

They shouldn't have fought en masse during the Greek Revolution and provided Greece with many Prime Ministers and Presidents then. One would expect that if they were oppressed, from those positions they would have been able to stop the oppression!

[gmellos]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

They are Albanians.I don't know if you are familiar with area,it is sorrounded by mountaines and their only link with the outside word was the sea.Almost every himariot house had a boat and their only sustain means were fishing and trade with south italy(In italy Himariot descendants still exist and they are just as the other Arbereshs) and Korfu.Indeed till 1800 they were bilingual and their second language was italian and not Greek.They started to speak the same greek dialect of Korfu,but it is a quite recent thing,and their Albanian is a perfect Lab dialect.During their marriages or funerals they sing in Albanian.Its immposible to distinguish Himariots from other Albanians from those regions,while you can spot immediately a greek from the minority are because of their typical greek accent.The only diference is that they are orthodox due to their isolation.Even today the Himariots that declare themselves Greeks are less then 30-35%.

Ok so IF they claim themselves as Greeks doesn't that make them greeks? Oh wait ONLY Albanians and Scopians can make those claims!

[Draco]

The real question is why did the Himariots elect Bolanos as mayor if only a minority of them are Greek.

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by Draco

The real question is why did the Himariots elect Bolanos as mayor if only a minority of them are Greek.

Because we respect our minorities,and we let them win.


last local elections:
ps:theres only one round and who gets more votes gets the seat.


http://www.cec.org.al/2004/zgjedhven...eshilltare.htm

BASHKIA HIMARE

Nr Subjektet zgjedhore Me shifër % Mandate KZQV
1 Aleanca Demokratike AD 130 4.87 % 1
2 Lëvizja për të Drejtat dhe Liritë e Njeriut LDLNJ 116 4.35 % 1
3 Levizja për Zhvillim Kombëtar LZHK 35 1.31 % 0
4 Lëvizja Socialiste për Integrim LSI 135 5.06 % 1
5 Partia Agrare Ambjentaliste e Shqipërisë PAA 21 0.79 % 0
6 Partia Balli Kombëtar PBK 36 1.35 % 0
7 Partia Bashkimi Për Të Drejtat e Njeriut PBDNJ 833 31.21 % 5
8 Partia Demokracia Sociale PDS 89 3.33 % 1
9 Partia Demokrate e Re PDR 258 9.67 % 2
10 Partia Demokratike PD 209 7.83 % 1
11 Partia Demokristiane e Shqipërisë PDK 252 9.44 % 2
12 Partia Emigracioni Shqiptar PESH 0 0.00 % 0
13 Partia Republikane Shqiptare PR 204 7.64 % 1
14 Partia Socialdemokrate PSD 58 2.17 % 0
15 Partia Socialiste e Shqipërisë PS 293 10.98 % 2
Gjithsej vota të vlefshme 2,669 100.00 % 17

[Peace Lover]

Kostas your so confused !
Don't listen to the Berisha's bullshits !
70% of the Albanians(of Albania) are moslems , NOT TRUTH !
More than 80% of the Albanians(of Albania) are Atheist or Agonstic !
From the religious Albanians the majority is Greek-Othodox(Church of Iannoulatos) , probably the second most important religious group are the Roman-Catholics(Katolikët) , later the Shi'i moslems(Sect of Becta Shi'i/Bektashinjtë) , from the smallest group are the Suuni moslems(Myslimanët) , the Eastern Orthodoxes(Church of Father Nikolla Marku) and the Greek-Catholics(Jeziutët) !
From the Atheist-Agnostic group only 10% seems Agnostic the rest is Atheist !
Yes , from the Agnostics the majority are the Suuni moslems of Berisha !
At maximum the religious people in Albania is 24% of the population , the rest is ATHEIST !
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About Pirro Dhima , my father talk with him in '96 , because he come a lot of times in Albania in those years ! He never claim his self Greek !
But , Himariot !
If you visit Himara , you gone see that the Albanians of Himara claim theyr selves Himariotes and the Greeks of them " Akrokeraounoi " !
He said to my father that he decide to rapresent Greece because the grave economical situation of Albania !
If I don't remember bad he said in TVSH(Albanian Public Televison) that all the Albanians should be proud for him !
Probably his Greek only from the mother or he had Vlach origins . The surname Dhima(Dimas) is used more by the Albanians that the Greeks in percentage !
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About Himara only 21% of the population declare themselves Greeks !
They live only in 3 villages , from 9 of the Himara's district . Only in one village they are in majorance in Buno(Greek:Vuno) . In the town of Himara they are only 14% of the population !
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About the elections , the PBDNj party isn't the party of the Greeks , but of the minorances !
This party rapresent all the minorances , Slavs , Vlachs , Greeks , Turks , Egyptians , Romany etc.
Also rapresent the Christian religious citizens of the Atheist Albania !
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Kostas don't confuse anymore the Orthodoxism with the Hellenism !
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Bollano , first , is the rapresentant of the Orthodoxes , in Himara the majority is Orthodox not Atheist !
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But if you want the truth about Himara ?
Himara is occupied by MAVI(Omonia) !