Issue about the cham genocide

[gmellos]

Originally Posted by Peace Lover

Stop talking bullshits !
There are human life's , not candies !
Stop claiming stupid books scribed by stupid authors !
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Only real facts , real historical documents !
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Does exist real historical documents to approve the Albanian atrocities in "Northern Epirus" ?
No , why , because those are bullshits created by the Greek Nazi !
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Did exist historical documents to approve the massacre of "Southern Epirus" by the Greeks to the Albanian minority ?
YES !
1- Encouraged by the Allied Mission I headed, Zervas drove the Chams out of their homes in 1944. The majority fled to find shelter in Albania. Their eviction from Greece was carried out with large-scale bloodshed. Zervas's work was followed in March 1945 with a large scale massacre of the Filiates Chams that cannot be excused. The result was the eviction of the undesirable Albanian population from their land.
2- In March 1945 units of Zervas's dissolved forces carried out a massacre of Chams in the Filiates area, and practically cleared the district of the Albanian minority. According to all the information I have been able to gather on the Cham issue, in the fall of 1944 and during the first months of 1945, the authorities in north-western Greece perpetrated savage brutality by evicting some 25,000 Chams - residents of Chameria - from their homes. They were chased across the border after having been robbed of their land and property. Hundreds of male Chams from the ages of 15 to 70 were interned on the islands of the Aegean Sea. In total 102 mosques were burnt down.
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Now do you see who's the difference between the innocent people and the terrorists and also liars !
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Bravo , "fratelli" !

2000 -2500 death does NOT mean Genocide! Hell we just lost over 200,000 people in Burma adn China 2 weeks ago!!!!

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Peace Lover

Stop talking bullshits !
There are human life's , not candies !
Stop claiming stupid books scribed by stupid authors !
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Only real facts , real historical documents !
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Why don't you provide some real documents for a change.


:

Does exist real historical documents to approve the Albanian atrocities in "Northern Epirus" ?
No , why , because those are bullshits created by the Greek Nazi ! :

I think I provided you with several INDEPENDENT sources.

:

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Did exist historical documents to approve the massacre of "Southern Epirus" by the Greeks to the Albanian minority ?
YES !
1- Encouraged by the Allied Mission I headed, Zervas drove the Chams out of their homes in 1944. The majority fled to find shelter in Albania. Their eviction from Greece was carried out with large-scale bloodshed. Zervas's work was followed in March 1945 with a large scale massacre of the Filiates Chams that cannot be excused. The result was the eviction of the undesirable Albanian population from their land.
2- In March 1945 units of Zervas's dissolved forces carried out a massacre of Chams in the Filiates area, and practically cleared the district of the Albanian minority. According to all the information I have been able to gather on the Cham issue, in the fall of 1944 and during the first months of 1945, the authorities in north-western Greece perpetrated savage brutality by evicting some 25,000 Chams - residents of Chameria - from their homes. They were chased across the border after having been robbed of their land and property. Hundreds of male Chams from the ages of 15 to 70 were interned on the islands of the Aegean Sea. In total 102 mosques were burnt down. :

As was said above, 2500 dead and 20,000 expelled for SIDING with the NAZI's is NOT a genocide.


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Now do you see who's the difference between the innocent people and the terrorists and also liars !
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Bravo , "fratelli" !

I presented you with first hand accounts and independent historians and you respond with Wikipedia

[Albanian guy]

Look you Greek guys:

You were lucky and smart in 1913 to STEAL the Albanian lands from Filiati to Arta. That is our (Albanian) fault. Well done from you guys. But at least admit it...

[kzk842]

Have anybody told you that north Epeiros was 3 times liberated by the Greek army and all 3 times was given back to Albania by treaties?
So you seem to be 3 times lucky and smart to steal north Epeiros.
Please that kind of thinking belongs to the far away past,dont get it back to Balkans of 2008.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Arta to Filiati is ALB.

Look you Greek guys:

You were lucky and smart in 1913 to STEAL the Albanian lands from Filiati to Arta. That is our (Albanian) fault. Well done from you guys. But at least admit it...

Show us a historical source that claims Epirus was ever Albanian (or even Illyrian), and by that I don't mean Ali Pasha's Ottoman rule. I mean, the majority of the people, language as Albanian. Of course you cannot.

Oh btw, Ali Pasha spoke Albanian, but also Greek. He actually, made Greek the official language of his court and converted from Islam to Orthodox Christianity to solidify his alliance with the Greeks.

Here is a nice essay presented in front of the British Parliament back in 1877


Pamphlets relating to English history The eastern question Janina 1877

[TirAlb]

Chicago everyone that knows 1 or 2 things about the Balkans will tell you how stupid that article is. I remind you that this doc. was done only one year before "The congress of Berlin" were Bismarc declared that there's no Albanian ethnicity, and the territory of Albania was inhabitated, only by latins Turks and Greeks, this according to the western "knowledge" of the balkans. So obviously an Albanian worshiping allah was a turk, and an Albanian going in a Greek school was a Greek, forgoting that there were no Albanian schools, churches or mosques at the time.
Thats why Albanians are totaly ignored there, and after reading it im even more confused about the real meaning of the word "Greek".

[chicagogeorge]

^^

Unfortunately there are holes in your hypothesis. Firstly, the above article says that the majority language in the Sandjak is Greek, NOT Albanian.

Secondly, it also quotes Lord Byron who knew very well the difference between Greeks and Albanians, as he lived amongst both.

Thirdly, it describes the character of Janina as Greek. Do you deny this?



Another article. This is VERY SPECIFIC as to where the majority is Greek in Epirus (meaning language) and where Albanian begins.



If that still doesn't ruffle your feathers well. Here is another account which clarifies the dominant language/ethnic group in Epirus, from a linguist written during WWI



and how interesting that the purest Greek spoken back in the 19th century is said to have been of the Greeks in Epirus. How would this be the case, if Epirus was so loaded with Albanians as you are suggesting Oh yeah, and look at the date... 1816.


Can all these accounts be wrong?

[Truth Bearer]

TirAlb I think Chicago has checkmated you lad.....

[TirAlb]

No,I don't think so TB he is just checkmateing himelf , obviously those texts are just weak, very weak indeed, attempts to justify the Greek claims in epirus.

Chicago can you bring it in a text format instead of jpg, so we can directly quote the textes, and comment some of the bs, writed there?



Here he is saying that only some Albanians are meet in this "Greek" country,but...



...here he is pratically saying that in the territory from pindus to norther Gjirokastra is spoken exclusively the Albanian language, that according to this "genius" is not enough to call them Albanians.



Now he is saying that the region around the kalamata river is Albanian, that is Chameria, but who cares about that, after all they will embrace hellenism soon or later. I think you know enough about chams TB and what heppened with them?



Here he is saying, who cares about Albanians in epirus, after all they live all over Greece (probaly he is talking about Suliotes)not only in Epirus , soon or later they will end in the same way. so lets go for it.

etc etc...

And after reading this stuff im even more sure that what i wrote in my previous post is 100% correct.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Here he is saying, who cares about Albanians in epirus, after all they live all over Greece (probaly he is talking about Suliotes)not only in Epirus , soon or later they will end in the same way. so lets go for it.

etc etc...

And after reading this stuff im even more sure that what i wrote in my previous post is 100% correct.

Buddy you forgot this part of the essay...




you understand what the word trifling means right!